1853 braided cent with what looks like another digit in the bottom half of the 3 in the date and there appears to be a small number 6 on one of the stars on the right. i have searched through many 1853 cent varieties online and i did not see any like this one. any idea what variety this coin is?
Pretty sure based on the date position this is an N19 an R1 variety, although attributing late dates via picture can be dificult even with high res pictures. There may be re punching on the 8 and 5 as well, but both those fade while the repunching on the 3 remains into the late state.
After looking at more coins I think it may be the N24, the N19 has the 5 touching the curl above and it does not look like yours does. N19 has the date re-punched but N24 does not. Hard to really know without better high res pictures. For what it's worth, the 1853s really only have one variety which commands a premium, the N32 and yours is not that one.
thanks for the info. i could not find any photos online of the N32 variety. even though this coin is not an N32 variety, i am just curious to see what the N32 looks like for future reference on the rare chance that i might find one of them sometime.
Here is my N32: The main diagnostics are the date position relative to the bust/hair/dentils, and the die lines on the reverse. The upper serif of the 5 traces the hair curl above it, but it is a decent distance from it. There are a lot of die line between ONE and CENT on the reverse, although they are not easily visible in the picture due to the lighting angle. I will be honest, if are interested in 'keeping' an eye out for these types of coins, especially the late dates, you must have the Grellman book. The differences between die varieties are very, very subtle and require a reference book and a decent amount of study. For instance, there are other die varieties of 1853 with a very similar date position, so that alone is not enough to determine the variety. You will not be able to attribute these coins by looking at pictures of the variety online and trying to compare as a lot of the diagnostic points on these coins just do not show up in photos.
thanks for posting the photos of the N32 variety and providing details about what to look for on the coin. where could i get the grellman book and about how much would a book like that cost? and do you know of any other quality reference books on the early date large cents varities, mainly the liberty cap cents and draped bust cents, that are low priced reference books? i have seen some of these types of books offered for sale online for $100.00 to $200.00 or more.
The Grellman book on late dates is available from the author for $100 post paid last time I checked. I know that sounds expensive, but two things to consider. I have never seen a copy of the Grellman book sell on ebay for less than $100, so think of it as not really 'buying' the book, merely renting the book with a $100 deposit. If and when you are done with it, sell it to someone else and you will likely get the money back. Second point, that single N32 I posted posted more than paid for the book. For early dates I think there are two really good cheap options. First is find a copy of Sheldon's penny whimsy, i still use it even though I have other early date books. These come up periodically on ebay in the $30 range. The second option is find a copy of the Dan Holmes Late Date sale from Goldberg auctions. The collection was complete minus one variety, which is pictured in the catalog even though it was not included for sale. The pictures are large color photos and the coins are high grade examples. With early dates you can look at pictures of coins to find varieties due to the minting process. Those catalogs go for around $15, it does not include attribution points, but with the pictures and a little bit of sleuthing you can figure then out.
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1803 large cent thanks for the info. i looked through some of the goldberg auctions online and i did not see this variety of 1803 draped bust cent. (see photos). are there different varieties of the same variety type on these coins? for example, are there more than one type of an 1803 draped bust cent variety S-261, and so on? or are there only one type of each variety?
The 1803 does look like s245 to me as well. The 3 is embedded in the bust, and the leaf adjacent to D in UNITED is by the upright. Quick definition, a variety denotes a specific pairing of obverse and reverse dies. Within a given obverse/reverse die pairing (variety) there are different die states. Here die state refers to the condition of the dies not to a different variety. The S245 is an interesting in a lot of ways. It is the pairing of Sheldon's obverse 3 and reverse C, but Sheldon notes his obverse 3 and obverse 2 (s245) are the same. The s245, which was struck first, had multiple clashes with the reverse die (different die states) leaving a lot of damage. The obverse die was taken out of service and ground down to remove the damage, but in the process lost a lot of hair detail, specifically the strands above the head and behind the ear. This obverse die was than used to strike s244 with a different reverse. The damage on s245 is responsible for it being called the 'Unicorn' variety, while the s244 is know by it's diagnostic 'unfinished' hair. Last little bit of interest, the 1803 reverse C used on the s245 is also the 1802 reverse M used on the 1802 s242, which helps determine that s245 was probably one of the first 1803s while the s242 was one of the last 1802s struck.
1803 large cent. mumps obverse thanks for the great info. this is an 1803 large cent with the mumps obverse. are there more than one variety of the mumps obverse type? i have seen that there a few different sheldon numbers with the mumps obverse but i am not sure of what exactly is different about each of them. i have a 1794 large cent that is in poor grade. i can't see much detail on the coin and the date and the reverse are worn away. the word liberty and the head and liberty cap on the obverse is visible enough to see how the letters in liber of liberty line up with the hair area on the head. the letters seem to line up the same as the starred reverse variety, but i am not sure about that. there are some very small silver colored pieces on the reverse, a few near the edges and a few in other areas and it looks like there is something similiar in a spot or two on the obverse as well. could be just some random pieces of metal that somehow got in the coins surfaces. are there any any other varieties of 1794 large cents that the letters in the word liberty line up the same with the hair area that are not the starred reverse variety?
In regards to the Mumps obverse coin, yes there are three different varieties if memory serves, they are s246, s247, and s248. Again, from memory they were all struck with the same obverse die, but each had a different reverse die, so the differences would be on the reverse. I can not open the picture at work, but feel free to check out the Holmes catalog online and see if you can attribute it: http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/toc_auc.php?site=1&lang=1&sale=54 For the 1794's there are a lot of different varieties, maybe around 60. When I attribute the 1794s I break them down into 4 basic groups, head of 93, early head of 94, late head of 94, and lowest curl in a loop (these are my personal descriptions). The difference between the early head of 94 and the late head of 94 is the position of LIBERTY in regards to the head, is it high above the head or is it low and close to the head. The s48 (starrred reverse) is one of the late head of 94s as the LIBERTY is low and close to the head. In terms of your specific coin, I would need a picture to do more as the exact spacing is important not just saying it's close. As I pointed out in a different thread of yours, all the letters of LIBERTY where individually punched on the 94s so there are small differences. But I encourage you to again look through the goldberg catalog and try to classify your 94 as either head of 93, head of 94, or lowest curl in a loop (s67-s71). Once you have determined those classifications you have significantly narrowed your search.
thanks for the info. the 1803 large cent with mumps obverse looks like an S-248. the 1794 large cent is a late head of 94 with the liberty low and close to the head. it is a thicker coin with a lettered edge. i have posted some photos of the 1794 cent but the photos are not good because all that i have for photos is a webcam.
