I need help for a friend who got scam by a coin shop

Thanks medoraman. If you read the whole post I am in a bad situation, with her doing this behind her husbands back. It makes it hard to get the information I need from her, other than me going there Friday on my way to a fishing tour. She still has a lot of company from out of town staying at her house, which makes it hard for her to get me a copy of the receipt. I will keep everyone posted as I find out more. I am going to help this lady do something. I just don't no what yet? All the information from this group has put me in the right direction.
Thanks Biged

 

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Not that I'm a marriage counselor or anything, but I have been married now for 22 years, and this concerns me more than the money. I think the sooner you two can tell her husband what is going on the better. If they are an older couple and if they've been married for a while, their marriage has seen worse and they can handle it. But the longer you keep one partner in a relationship in the dark, the bigger the trust issues will become when it is eventually discovered.

 

+1

 

At this point what concerns more than anything is this shop doing this to a lot of uneducated senior citizens. I will help my friend but it will not stop there.
As for their marriage. I fill that it will come to a point she will have to tell him. I will not get involved in that part, or my marriage will be in trouble. She is a 25 year friendship (best friends) with my wife.
Thanks Biged

 

What I mean by (uneducated senior citizens) Is pertaining to what they know about coins and bullion. I was not referring to their overall knowledge.
Thanks Biged

 

Again, the best response from me would be, once you figure out what really went on, to not be "confrontational" with the shop owner, but more "troubleshooter". Try to think of what excuses he might come up with, and have a response that will allow him to "do the right thing". Suggest to him the price might be more in line with those of a morgan or an ASE, (whichever is appropriate), or suggest there were errors on both sides and maybe its just best to reverse this transaction and start over, (promising him to buy from him). Many individuals will "do the right thing" if you lead them to it.

Short of that, and if you do determine that your friend was short changed, I definitely would keep that excellent article posted earlier about Florida elder law in my back pocket.

That is how I would approach the situation sir.

 

And this is evident from the stories I hear from my favorite teller at the local bank.... seniors cashing out their Kennedy halves (the ones they hoarded back in 1964) for face value.

 

I also think the "catching more flies with honey" is the best approach to start with here.

 

Cam, that may or may not be true. I am sure "price gouging" is illegal, at least in some states as many folks were prosecuted in NY for gouging after Sandy, so it crystal clear that under some circumstances it is not perfectly legal for a business to charge "whatever" he wants.

My problem is I do not know what constitutes "price gouging" and I doubt you or anybody on this thread does. It probably varies from state to state, judge to judge, or even the judges mood that day. So I submit, we can not know about the legality unless it is tested in court.

 

When I posted the article from the Florida Bar Association, I went through some of the statutes that were cited (I had to edit them out because the post was too long) and the Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act (FDUTPA) contained a separate section on price gouging during an emergency.

Chris

 

But they key word, or words, is during an emergency.

This would not qualify as an emergency.

 

BU, I concede your point, It seems to be considered gouging only if there is some sort of triggering event and a disruption of normal service.

 

I agree, (and commend Mike for conceding it, pretty rare on an internet forum ). However, given the excellent article by a FL lawyer posted earlier, I do believe there would be some applicable protections for her as a senior citizen in that state.

BooksB4Coins does make an excellent point about how quick we are to judge a deal, and how anti-dealer some here are. I am prefacing all of my opinions by saying:

1. I am accepting at face value there was $32-44 charged per 64 Kennedy half
2. Normally I do not say anything about a dealer's price, its between him and his customer, but such a markup ove what everyone else sells these for, ($12ish), to a senior citizen who is not familiar with buying junk silver, is simply eggregious. If the price were $15, $17, or maybe even $20 for ONE I would not comment. But to charge 300% more, (for such a large amount), than other dealers to such a person is simply unconscionable in my eyes.

I do hope to hear what happens.

 

I agree with everything you've stated here except that I believe people on this site are way more anti-consumer than they are anti-seller or anti-dealer.

 

There are enough of both here to keep an argument going for a long time.

 

1. I have heard of dementia.
2. As OP said she is of full mental capacity.
3. She did spend $8,000 and doesn't have dementia.
4. The only diminished capacity she is suffering from is ignorance.
5. I may not know much at 18 but I can read the evidence the OP has provided to make an informed opinion.
6. I think you owe me an apology.

 

A Microcosm Of Society

I'm trying to view this thread as an objective aged observer watching this community as a microcosm of the world today. I can generally observe the attitudes/perspectives from naive youths to a naive old lady, with some biased males, and possibly a few wise women watching the fray, in the middle.

All of the attitudes, queries, suggestions, I believe are normal for this diverse community. If we view the situation objectively from afar, it should be found as a normal panoramic view of society. I don't believe anyone should be offended by the posts in the thread when considering the facts, or lack thereof presented in the thread.

Biged presented a plausible senario which I've experienced on numerous occasions as a presiding officer in several "Senior" organizations. The majority of participants are elderly women, most having lost their mates who handled financial affairs. Meetings are usually discussions of our next party rather than resolving financial or environmental/structural problems. They can't understand how a coin which was available in 1933 to mint employees for $20 could garner $7,000,000 from a group of men. They see their respected actors on television touting the new secure investment being Silver, and want to show their intelligence, investing in same by visiting a trust-worthy local B&M establishment that must be honorable to exist.

Experienced men might say that there isn't any regulation of local layperson PM sales, so what-ever price can be realized in their sales, is fair.

An inexperienced youth might hear of this new unregulated financial world, asking why would an experienced senior purchase something that has a face value of 50 cents, commonly known as "junk", for more than a maximum of melt value. However, they heard of dollars with mintage of >million selling for 5-6 figure amounts. They conceivably are in disbelieve when an unsubstantiated occurrence is purported.

Many have asked for substantiation of confusing facts? in the original post. Substantiation of facts is seemingly unavailable from an old lady who is now more concerned about a party than a refund, now that she has passed the responsibility to Biged. Many might say "trust but verify", where I've observed that "don't trust but verify" seems an applied credo which may have been applied here.

Biged, my man, you've done a great job!! I've been there, done that, don't want the chore again. I don't know that we were of much assistance, as you located the appropriate Statutes. My hat is off to you :bow::bow:.

I hope that you'll present your findings to your friend, where she can implement whatever efforts are necessary for her satisfaction. I believe a violation of statute normally legally requires reporting of same to "authorities". Since appropriate statute hasn't been verified, a personal presentation by her to the seller may result in an an equitable partial refund. Your presence may be of value to her when presenting, but you as an observer probably have little authority in the matter.

I trust that Biged and others aren't seriously offended by this seemingly normal interactive diverse process by our societal microcosm, and that an acceptable outcome will prevail. :thumb:

 

imrich
(Substantiation of facts is seemingly unavailable from an old lady who is now more concerned about a party than a refund, now that she has passed the responsibility to Biged.)

Thank you for a great insite. As far no worried she is very worried. We discovered her problem Friday night. After me telling her about the difference in value and how she had got taken, she cried for hours. She did not know that her husband was flying all these people in for her birthday. That is why she was at my house, so it could be a surprise. She still has a house full of people and as soon as she can she will attend this.
Thanks Biged

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Tyler,

I believe that neither you nor I nor Big Ed are qualified to say what does or doesn't constitute dementia or diminished capacity in the eyes of the law. I will say that ignorance is not the same as diminished capacity. The article from the Florida Bar Journal was written by an attorney with 10 years experience in FDUTPA and his emphasis in this article was on "per se" violations which basically means that no specific statute or ordinance is necessary in a given field of business to prove an unfair practice. The fact that Ed's friend paid $8,000 for less than $2,000 worth of silver based on the recommendation of the dealer would carry a lot of weight in any Florida jurisdiction under the FDUTPA.

Sorry, but I don't think you are owed an apology just because you think one way and he thinks another.

Chris

 

i was asked to justify my statement so i did and its not ridiculous to have a feeling about something thats my opion which i have the right to say. i would not have went farter with that post but was asked to do so i did.


and now on to the OP

and did not accuis you of lying i was asked to clarifie what i said and that statement is what poped into my head when i asked my self why i had this feeling. and i said maybe which means that could be a reason but might not be. there was no reason to contact the owner of the site i did nothing wrong and im sure he would agree that im in no violation of any thing. im a member of many forums and even was a admin of one. I have seen many threads that 'SEEM' to be just like this one on many different subjects started by trolls. if my feeling turns out to be just a feeling then i will apolgize. intill then heres some stuff that dosent make since


"what I thought the coin was worth an told her between $8.00 to $12.00 dollars her response was that she paid $32.00 each for them" In your first post you said $8 to $10


8000 divided by 32 equals 250

20 coins in roll times 9 rolls equals 180 coins

180coins times $32 equals $5760 so theres less then 3000 still missing more money could have still been charged for taxes which is illegal and still dosent equal 8000 if she was charged tax and the reciept shows it then you might be able to do something.

did u see all the rolls or just 1 maybe 1 run is kennedy and the rest are other silver 1 or 2oz rounds. since 8000 is a even number there should be some change left inless the kennedys were put in to equal the change

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