I need help for a friend who got scam by a coin shop

Well I'm worried for the bulk of your patients.

It seems that - not only are seniors targeted more (for 'wealth' or 'benefits') - but younger generations are less sympathetic, ethically less protective too.
In a dog-eat-dog world, seniors shall become jackal meat I suppose.

 

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You know what. My practice serves a grossly undeserved population in my area. I take excellent care of my patients. Clearly you know nothing about how medical law works...something I know quite a bit about. I cannot discuss my patients with ANYONE...including their family members unless either they say so or I have a legal document stating that they cannot make medical decisions themselves. If I suspect they are not capable...then I refer them to their physician prior to being treated with a letter outlining my concerns.

The fact that you go from discussing the topic of this thread to insulting me professionally is proof of your lack of information on this topic. Clearly, I have defeated you and you now must sink to petty insults. I pity you.

 

Seriously? Camaro is discussing about treating a senior citizen as an adult. Absent proof to the contrary, they should be given the rights and RESPONSIBILITIES of an adult. Anyone who is trying to say they have to be "protected" or whatever is effectively saying anyone over 60 should not be allowed to make their own decisions. If you say they cannot be held accountable for any purchase, then they also lose the ABILITY to purchase on their own at the same time.

Should the lady have educated herself? Of course, but let's talk about another situation. Say the same lady walks onto a car lot, and instead of going online and finding dealer purchase prices of vehicles, etc walks up and pays sticker price for a new car. I will wager she just spent $6,000 more than I would have paid for that car. Is she still mentally incompetent or just a horrible shopper?

Listen, I FULLY agree what this dealer was unethical, and would like the OP to try to help her as much as possible. However, absent information of a mental condition, I am assuming she is an ADULT who has the right and responsibility to make up her own mind about purchase decisions, including the duty to educate herself if she doesn't want to get swindled.

To assume any adult 60 or over is incompetent to make business decision is insulting to say the least. I say shame on anyone who believes that.

 

Is this the intersection of Straw-Man with Red Herring?

CamaroDMD, I'm not sure how I "insulted you professionally" (you're not a lawyer, you don't know WHAT you're talking about: FL elders, FL law, etc.) but you sure sound like a total crank.

Your sly defense of predatory coin-dealing is something that may reveal your own character, but I know NOTHING about your business practice. I would refrain from judging your "professional reputation" until I'd seen how many complaints/lawsuits have been logged against you by patients/insurance cos, etc. and the resolution thereof. Where is the Oregon website(s) for that?

 

Before someone swoops in here and locks this thread, will you guys cut it out? I don't think Big Ed started this thread so we could all delve into 'elder law' and I'd like to see this thread still active when he gets back to us with his results on the friend and his dealing with the shop owner.

 

1000% agree. Too bad CT does not have a "ban from thread" option for moderators to use. I will freely admit I would probably have it placed on me at times as well, but its an excellent point that the OP deserves better on his thread, and deserves to have it kept open.

 

green18-

Really? Why? He wrote: "Here is where I need your help. This is a coin shop. What is if any recourse does she have for being scammed? Is this fraud. In Florida they take a big look at elder people being taking advantage of."

This is the TOPIC: it's how the OP was written. If you don't like Florida's 'Elder-Law' as it MAY apply here (or 'protection of the elderly' from bullion-scams) you're entitled to your opinion here too.

 

This was exactly the point I was trying to make. I think you summed it up much better than I.

Really, you are unsure how you insulted me professionally...how about this quote:

The of course you refereed to me as a crank. Well...that is crossing the line. Up until this point, I have been very civil in discussing this matter. I have freely admitted that I am not a lawyer and have no expertise in Florida law. I asked you if you did and you ignored the question. I frankly don't care.

But, here is the way this is going to work. For a minute here...I am going to cease being a normally discussing member of this topic and dawn my other hat...as forum moderator. Let me be perfectly clear. You are welcome to disagree and discuss with my in a civil manner. I even kindly asked you to not insult me. Clearly you didn't get it. This is your last chance and this is a warning to everyone else. No more personal attacks or insults against anyone. If I see one more, everyone involved will be reprimanded.

 

booyah grandma!

 

Where did all this anger you have derive from?

 

Let us all hope that silver would rocket up to 100 dollars an ounce in the coming years or less. And cheers to those who deserve .
Charles

 

Back to the original topic...if I were in the OPs shoes, this is what I would do.

1. First I would return to the coin dealer with the woman, the coins, and the receipt. I would also go with the the silver spot value for the purchase date and thus the total value of the coins at the time of purchase. For arguments sake, lets use today's figures off coinflation. Right now silver is $28.85 per ounce, so each 1964 Kennedy is worth $10.43. Since she purchased 180 coins, the spot value is $5193. I would kindly explain to the dealer that selling this for $8000 is highly unacceptable and you expect him to make it right. Understand that a premium is to be expected, but not like this. See what happens. If the dealer is willing to work with you...problem solved, if not leave the store without incident and proceed to the next step.

2. Speak with a lawyer. I know we have been discussing the legalities of this situation and I have stated that I believe it to be legal...but as it has been pointed out, I am not an expert in law. I would speak with someone who is. See if once the lawyer gets involved (and if the lawyer suggests so the police), if the situation is resolved. If not, I would go one step further.

3. At this point, speaking with the dealer and working it out and speaking with a lawyer have done nothing. IMHO, there is nothing further you can do in an attempt to recover the money. But, what you can do is save others. I would go to the newspaper, local news, hand out fliers in his parking lot, at the mall, everywhere you can think of telling your story. Make sure that the whole town learns of what happened. Be 100% truthful. Say that she went to purchase $8000 worth of silver and the dealer sold her $5193 worth claiming it was worth $8000. The $2800 he made off of her in such a fashion might be the last dollar he ever makes.

But, that's just me. That's what I would do. Again, I don't know if telling your story would constitute slander or anything...but I would imagine if you are 100% truthful that nothing bad could happen.

 

180*$10.42=1,875.6
Premium of $6124.4

 

how many coins per roll?? where these certified rolls??? hum yea they should be way less than 888.64 a roll.. return them.. if u can

 

"(5) "Elderly person" means a person 60 years of age or older who is suffering from the infirmities of aging as manifested by advanced age or organic brain damage, or other physical, mental, or emotional dysfunctioning, to the extent that the ability of the person to provide adequately for the person's own care or protection is impaired."

 

Hmm, I'm not sure how I did that wrong but I certainly did.

 

I posted that direct quote twice and was ignored.

 

Hmmm. Since she is able to get to a coin shop and BigEd's, I can only assume that she has no "diminshed capacity" and can adequately care for herself. She did, after all, have access to $8,000 which was probably a cash transaction since most dealers in silver only accept cash.

But thats just an assumption on my part based upon what I've read so far.

 

Honestly, I didn't know you from adam before today; I thought your avatar was something silly and not "professional." YOU introduced your dental client issues to this thread - not me. (If you imagine I'm one of your disgruntled clients, that's off-base too.)

Your initial accusation of my "insult" is totally bizarre. In Massachusetts, "chief" is no more insulting than "boss" "hoss" "buddy" "dude." But your flying off the handle on that is wacky, inexplicable... or: pretextual? You're being provocative, simply.

As far as I am concerned, the topic is predation upon the elderly. I didn't see the grift bothering you much (on the contrary, always recessed in subordinate clause, digressive prattle about capitalism, etc.) but our discussion of this grift truly enrages you. So... why? (That might be everything in a nutshell.)

1) In a callow ploy, you attempted to discredit ('Grift=Rape, ABSURD!') which cpm9ball nailed perfectly. I let that one slide: http://www.cointalk.com/t224496-6/#post1665610
2) You blatantly justified the grift - which almost everyone here but you admits - here: http://www.cointalk.com/t224496-6/#post1665610 (Really: check YOUR head.)
After denying she's an elder, your bogus but persistent 'legal dismissal' of this senior's case looks slanted. Against Fraud??? "legally he is perfectly fine. {...} I don't think there is a thing she can do about it."
3) You've drawn a whole lot of attention to yourself here, in your ranting about YOUR clients, YOUR business, etc. If you bring that to the table, we may discuss it too.

I wonder why you keep ranting on? Didn't you declare victory long ago? You wrote here http://www.cointalk.com/t224496-7/#post1666621
"Clearly, I have defeated you and you now must sink to petty insults. I pity you" but I have not insulted you, petty or otherwise. Of course, YOU are the one throwing accusations and insults here - which I responded to, civilly (YES: you sounded like a crank there: fair reponse to your bizarre attack not vice-versa.)

I'm still unsure how this strange hissyfit relates to your own business model, here. Did you really want to highlight that? But throwing on your modertor hat after initially attacking someone (me, anyone) is unsporting, to say the least. (Others might be more blunt: cowardly?) And doesn't that sort of thing render you patently unfit to "moderate" here really?

(I wonder if it was my comment about sociopaths that really struck a nerve.)

Back on track: Do we think the bullion-shyster and his kind are immoral or amoral, fleecing grannies? Yea or nay?