I need help for a friend who got scam by a coin shop

maybe they are all ms67, and she screwed over the dealer.

 

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At first I was surprised that no one "liked" this post... then I remembered where I am and was no longer surprised at all.

 

Sure! There would be a greater likelihood that they were all PF70UCAM A/H's.

Chris

 

Hello group
Sunday was a hectic day. My friend had a birthday party, and a lot of people was around so we did not get to the receipt I did look at the coins, the coins were just good to very good 1964 Kennedy Half Dollars. Nothing special some that you can buy on ebay for $12.00 all day long. Someone ask her age. She is over 60 but not 70. She is watching a lot of politics and hearing that the US dollar is going be worth nothing and she should start investing in silver and gold. This was her first transaction into buying silver.
When I get a look at the receipt I will know more, which may not be till Friday.
I have read all the replies, and thank you for them. I know a lot of you think that people should know certain things before buying and investing their money. Well my thinking is we all have been taking at one time are another. It all depends on what is happening around that situation.
To answer another question yes there is other friends of hers that I believe have been taken advantage of.
If this transaction was within 100% I would not be posting this thread. This was 400%. That is why I believe this is a crime. To reinstate what she got for $8000,00 was nine (9) plastic half tubes with 20 1964 Kennedy half dollars in each tube.
I will keep this post up to date on progress.
Thanks Biged

 

Cam,

First, Juan wasn't comparing this to an act of rape. He was attempting to show that the purported "ignorance" and/or "irresponsibility" of an elderly person could be likened to the "short skirt". Is there justification for rape because a woman is wearing a short skirt? Certainly not! Is there justification to cheat an elderly person because of diminished capacity? Certainly not!

As for the legality of such a transaction, you might be wrong on that point, too. Big Ed mentioned in his last post that he believes that the woman's friends may also have been "taken in" by this dealer. If that is the case, then it could likely be used by a district attorney to show "intent" of an illegal activity conducted to take advantage of the elderly. This is illegal in most states, Florida being one of them.

Chris

 

Why is it assumed this person is of diminished capacity? The OP stated the person is aged between 60-70. In this age range...many, many people are at full capacity. Both of my parents are in their mid-60s and are fully capable of making an informed decision. This woman is not "elderly" and no evidence has been given to suggest she is of diminished capacity.

What is more likely, based on the story is...she was watching the "fear monger" types on TV which convinced her that her cash was worthless and she needed to convert it into something more safe...which they suggest be precious metal. Rather than doing research into how much silver $8000 should bring in based on current prices...she went to a dealer and paid an outrageous price.

Now, who is at fault here? I would say both are. The dealer can ask anything he wants for his product...that's capitalism. The consumer's job is to know what the proper price of something is prior to making a large purchase. Was the dealer in the wrong...yes. I'm sure he knew what the current spot value of silver was. I'm also sure that based on the buyers willingness to pay such an outrageous premium he knew that she did not have any knowledge about what she was doing. Therefore, he took advantage of her. That to me is very clear. I'm certain he knowingly took advantage of her...which I believe is morally reprehensible. That being said, I don't believe it's illegal as he has the right to ask any price he wants and she has the right to buy from someone else. That leads me to the buyer...who is also at fault. Had she done a few minutes worth or research...she could have figured out what the spot value of silver was. With that information, she could have been equipped to make an informed decision and not be put into a position to be taken advantage of. IMHO, she allowed herself to be taken advantage of and found someone more than willing to do so.

Now, I am not "blaming the victim" here. The dealer was the one who took advantage of her. But, everyone needs to take actions to protect themselves and not doing so puts us at grave risk. She certainly did that.

 

I hope this works out ok for your friend Biged!

 

Yes a coin shop can ask whatever they want for what they sell.

The buyer can walk out the door as easily as they walked in the door. She did not have to meet that price.

I don't see this as a legal issue; however, perhaps you as her friend, can go back to that coin shop with the rolls, and try to negotiate with the dealer on a much more reasonable price. Remind him that word of mouth is what helps his new business walk in his door, and negative word of mouth can keep new business from walking in his door.

Price gouging would be increasing the price of certain goods and/or services above a fair market retail value when there's a crisis or emergency.

Good luck.

 

subscribing...

 

I did read it Tyler asserted that the old lady should have known the worth of the silver half dollars because she was around when they were introduced into circulation. He based this off of her age. You disagreed because you're 24 and you still don't know which are 40% and 90% silver. You actually proved his point about younger people possibly not knowing the silver content because you were of course not around during the 60's.

Anyway, I hope this works out ok for your friend too Biged.

 

CamaroDMD:

You are not the definer of "elderly," chief: the State of Florida is. That State defines "seniors" and "elderly" as 60 years of age or older.
This woman is 65/+? She's also "elderly" by Federal regs too - and you're wrong.

We have no indication for or against full mental capacity. I suppose the Florida Law might enlighten some:
http://law.justia.com/codes/florida/2005/TitleXLVI/ch0825.html

Don't presume there's "no evidence of crime" here, either. A good lawyer and fair court might say otherwise. Tough luck, grifters!

 

There is a difference between a profit margin and a scam and you know it. Unfortunately, SOME dealers think they have no responsibility to be human or follow the Golden Rule (and not "them that has the gold makes the rules").

If you speak of investing in silver and then offer a silver product which has no relation to it's silver content, you are scamming. Of course, this is how TV scammers sell their 'commemoratives' of Gold and Silver coins of great value for $19.95 which look like the coins they describe rather than being the coins they describe.

Now legally, you can find politicians who go along with this and refuse to make it illegal. Heck, they'd be hypocrites if they did. Selling one thing and delivering another?

 

I don't appreciate your tone sir. I in no way insulted you and do not appreciate the use of the word "chief" which referring to me. If you want to use something other than my username...I would suggest "Doctor."

Most people don't consider someone who is 65 to be "elderly." You also omitted a very important part of the Florida "elderly" definition. Based on the link you posted, it states: "(5) "Elderly person" means a person 60 years of age or older who is suffering from the infirmities of aging as manifested by advanced age or organic brain damage, or other physical, mental, or emotional dysfunctioning, to the extent that the ability of the person to provide adequately for the person's own care or protection is impaired."

That being said, my point (which you clearly missed completely since you omitted it in your "...") was about her ability to make an informed decision. The post which I quoted (which was not yours) suggested the woman had "diminished capacity." I simply stated that at no point did the OP say she had diminished capacity and that her age (being between 60-70) was not advanced enough to assume that. Which (and not knowing it at the time) is exactly what the Florida law discusses. Since we have no evidence about her mental ability...I'm going to assume she is at her full facilities until otherwise told. Therefore, her age is irrelevant. She could be 65 or 25...it doesn't matter.

 

So, just because she is only between 60 & 70 you assume that she should be in complete possession of her mental faculties. Would the fact that she purchased $2,000 worth of silver for $8,000 suggest that? Do you assume that everyone who comes into the dentist's office knows how to take proper care of their teeth?

Chris

 

BINGO. But this thread is more enlightening, a litmus test of "our" immorality.
Aren't you surprised the sociopaths and moral equivocators are so honest? Once upon-a-time, they hid that in shame. No more!
Old people must be insane or scamming to trust and do business with... anyone! Whoa.

 

I don't assume that about my patients. But, I see a lot of patients between 60-70 and the VAST majority of them are capable of making an informed decision. The fact that this person acted out of fear and tried to convert her money into silver without doing research in itself is not proof that she is disabled in anyway. It only shows that she doesn't possess the knowledge of the value of silver. I don't believe this alone would hold up in court as evidence to her being disabled. Now, perhaps the OP is withholding this information for privacy reasons or he doesn't know. Perhaps she is disabled in some way which totally changes the situation...but until otherwise told my someone with knowledge...we can't assume that.

I said it before and I will say it again. All things aside...it doesn't matter if this person is 25 or 65. The dealer knew the spot value of silver...and therefore knew that the premium he was asking was outrageous. IMHO, if someone was willing to pay such a premium...it is evidence that they did not know the value of what they were purchasing (it is not evidence of a mental handicap). I believe by selling the silver at that price, the dealer acted immorally. However, based on what we KNOW (not what we ASSUME)...I don't see any violation of the law here. It's sad and wrong...but I don't believe it's illegal.

 

CamaroDMD:

No, I did not. Your definitions are bizarre and irrelevant. Florida recognizes anyone over Age 60+ as a Senior : see the Department of Elder Affairs.
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/FileS...inority Leader/Resources/Senior_FactSheet.pdf

You're no authority on Florida Law either, Doctor. Period.

 

That's fine...but read the first link you posted before you make comments about it. Yes, Florida does define a "Senior" as someone who is 60+. But, they define an "elderly person" as:

That is a direct quote from the link you posted in post 91.

I am not in anyway denying she is a senior citizen...but I have not seen any evidence that she is an "elderly person" according to the Florida legal definition.

Are you an authority on Florida law? Because if you are not...you have no room to criticize my interpretation of it. Period.

 

Cam,

I fully understand that you find the dealer's actions to be reprehensible, and I'm in full agreement on that point. But, there is a difference between a mental handicap and diminished capacity. Diminished capacity may include many things like forgetfulness, reasoning or logic, physical stamina, etc.

Chris

 

This is true...but simply being "older" is not an excuse for making poor decisions. Is a 65 year old person not as "sharp" as a 30 year old...more than likely yes. But, the vast majority of these people are still fully capable of making an informed decision (I know, that's a medical term...but the principle still holds true here). The bulk of my patients are in this age group...so this is something I am familiar with. What has to be assessed here is...was this person capable of making a well informed decision, do they have the facilities intact to do that. Making a poor business decision is not proof of the contrary. Now, a history of poor decision making might be...but one isolated incident is not enough. Perhaps this woman does have a history of issues, perhaps she has a medical condition. .