I need help for a friend who got scam by a coin shop

"Ignorance" of the victim is no justification for flagrantly unethical predation. "Irresponsible"? Blame the victim? (No, a woman wearing a short dress doesn't "deserve" to get raped... just as a frightened old woman wanting $8k in Silver doesn't deserve to get fleeced with a handful of 40% coin.) It's very sad - and alarming - that any 21st Century American adult would need this explained.

Blaming-the-victim is morally repugnant and decidedly low-class too.

(I'm assuming this woman isn't insane or scamming anyone herself, unlike some folks here. But that's speculation too.)

 

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See, that brings up another issue regarding an older generation...back in the day people were just a little more honest.
People did have more integrity 'back in the day'.
Not much mind you as most people know there have been shysters as long as there have been consumers, but I would speculate that if she were to make the same purchase say 50 years ago it may have been a little more on the honest, customer oriented side of things....
- just my .03 cents (that's .02 cents adjusted for inflation).

 

yes, but unless you lived in a bomb shelter for the last 50 years, you would realize things have changed

 

Are you the victim when you buy shoes for $80 that cost $5 to make? No. Why? Because you have the ability to shop around and obtain the knowledge you know you do no have to make the proper decision. You accept that price because you think it is fair. Both the seller and buyer gain. She is not the victim of anything. She is the victim of being lazy and not shopping around like she probably would have any other item!

 

You make a fair point. But, have times really changed? Great depression, WW2, Watergate scandal, and many more lessons of life that I was not around to see. There are many events in life that show we should question each other.

 

Some people still have faith in others' judgement and advice - especially in a market where so called experts are the norm.
It's too bad things have changed in that respect....

Speaking of, it also shows a lack of respect for others in general, and the elderly specifically.
The seller in this case is at the least dishonest and misleading.
However - I believe in the religion of karma.

 

This is an excerpt from the FBI webpage on fraud targeting the elderly.......

Fraud Target: Senior Citizens​

Our Common Fraud Schemes webpage provides tips on how you can protect you and your family from fraud. Senior Citizens especially should be aware of fraud schemes for the following reasons:

• Senior citizens are most likely to have a “nest egg,” to own their home, and/or to have excellent credit—all of which make them attractive to con artists.
• People who grew up in the 1930s, 1940s, and 1950s were generally raised to be polite and trusting. Con artists exploit these traits, knowing that it is difficult or impossible for these individuals to say “no” or just hang up the telephone.
• Older Americans are less likely to report a fraud because they don’t know who to report it to, are too ashamed at having been scammed, or don’t know they have been scammed. Elderly victims may not report crimes, for example, because they are concerned that relatives may think the victims no longer have the mental capacity to take care of their own financial affairs.
• When an elderly victim does report the crime, they often make poor witnesses. Con artists know the effects of age on memory, and they are counting on elderly victims not being able to supply enough detailed information to investigators. In addition, the victims’ realization that they have been swindled may take weeks—or more likely, months—after contact with the fraudster. This extended time frame makes it even more difficult to remember details from the events.
• Senior citizens are more interested in and susceptible to products promising increased cognitive function, virility, physical conditioning, anti-cancer properties, and so on. In a country where new cures and vaccinations for old diseases have given every American hope for a long and fruitful life, it is not so unbelievable that the con artists’ products can do what they claim.

 

Lets put the entire post up instead of "snipping" only select phrases in order to form an entirely different statement Juan.

Otherwise, your arguments and points only discredit you.

 

What's that saying? Honesty is doing the right thing when no one's looking?

 

He charged an Even 50 dollars per Kennedy half if the numbers add up.

Either, he should give her a full refund, and be ashamed of himself.

If the latter, he suffer the wrath of this person's friend. Who, by the way, has NO obligation to be polite. I would come with HUGE photocopies of the receipt. I would hassle everyone coming and going ( without breaking any law) - - - And I would probably egg his house ( did I say that?!)

 

The funniest part of this is that she of all people should know what a Kennedy half is worth. I could see ripping a younger person off because they could think it is old and very rare. An elderly person on the other hand should remember this type of coinage being used and what its content is. Did this elderly person really believe each coin she used to spend as 50 cents could be worth $50 today? We must be missing part of the story. Also people keep bringing up her age. It has nothing to do with anything. If somebody my age(18) went in that store swinging $8k around acting like I knew nothing the same thing would have happened to me. For all the ethics professors here have you ever gone to a garage sale? If you saw them selling $8k worth of silver bullion would your offer be $8k?

 

Tyler I don't think that there are many people outside of the coin collecting community who could tell you the difference between a '64, '69, and a '74 Kennedy. Once I filled those slots in my album I stayed away from all Kennedy halves except the '64 for that very reason. If you wanted to trade for anything except a '64 you have to check the years. So no I don't expect people to know their coins.

There are a lot of cashiers who don't know that a Susan B is legal tender and at the same time would not accept a barber coin either. But I suspect that you or I would because we should know better. If we accepted it a face would be scammers or just smart people who recognized a bargain.

A lot of the unethical things that have either been done or are being done now were raised in an ethical fashion and they chose to do the things that they do and yet they try to raise their children to do the right thing. This type of thing has been going on for ages and will not change unless they want it to or are forced to do what people think is "the right thing".

We know the following: (1) she purchased 9 rolls, (2) they were 1964 Kennedy's, and (3) she spent $8,000. We don't know if anything else was purchased because the OP said that he was going to visit the individual to look at the coins and the receipt.

If that was all she bought then she was taken advantage of. While most of us have been taken advantage of when we were first starting off (possibly not to this extent) we looked at the coin, were told what the price was, and then we had to make a choice. Either buy or to keep looking. Unfortunately we all have seen instances of this happening and perhaps we said something or just walked away. Most of us would probably just have said nothing and continued looking because we didn't want to interfer. So everytime we did this we just let it ride. Perhaps we did something by walking out and purchasing from there again, but still we did nothing.

 

Honestly, I don't think that there are many truely honest and ethical people who would have spoken up if they saw something like happening in front of them.

 

Bolded for emphasis. The limit on a small claims case in Florida is $5,000.

BS. A few years ago I had no clue that a Kennedy was 90% silver and I'm 24. Heck, without looking it up I can't tell you which Kennedys are 90% and which are 40%.

 

wait, what?

 

You can't possibly compare this to rape. No crime was committed...none, period. The dealer can ask any amount he wants for the coins. It's the sellers responsibility to do the research and decide if it's fair or not. The dealer can change $1 over spot or $1000...it's their choice.

That being said, I personally feel that this premium is unethical...but legally he is perfectly fine. I really hope she can return the coins for a refund...but she may not be able to and I don't think there is a thing she can do about it.

 

I think you are absolutely correct...and this is one of my favorite sayings. Unfortunately...doing something dishonest and doing something illegal are often different things. I think this is an example of the former but not the latter.

 

Selling 9 rolls of 1964 Kennedys for $8000 works out to about $44.50 each, 4.2 times melt. Proportionally, that's about the same as offering 5x face for silver -- and how often have we heard about Ca$h 4 Gold, Antiques Griftshow, or pawn shops doing exactly that when they thought they could get away with it?

Sure, if you offer a price to a competent adult and they accept it, you're on firm legal ground. That doesn't make it right. But I'll confess that I'm not entirely sure of the line between "getting a heck of a deal" and "taking advantage of people".

 

As the old saying goes, buyer beware.
I sincerely hope there is a missing piece of information here.

 

Read what I bolded. Tyler said the old lady should know the silver content of the coin.