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""So it does happen - just not very often. It is only a matter of time in my opinion for ACG""


It would seem then to me that the Florida State Attorneys office is more than a little lax in pursuing this. It's been going on for how long now??

If in fact there are hundreds of million of dollars lost because of alleged improprieties on the part of ACG, it seems rather odd to me that there has been no "crusader", anywhere, for decades who have put a stop to these alleged improprieties.

Tom

 

No, it's not up to the individual to "file suit". It's merely up to the individual to file ' a complaint".

I was referring to blatant fraud which is criminal, not civil. That falls under the AG's job description to pursue this as well as the comptrollers office.

It's amazing with all the allegations thrown around, that there wouldn't have been an "indictment".

I'm saying that after sooooo many years, one would have to think this might have already happened and one would have to wonder why not if it hasn't.

Seriously. Any speculation on why it hasn't?

Rgrds
Tom

 

"""The Professional Numismatists Guild ran a poll recently. The PNG poll shows that I am not alone in considering ACG "Unacceptable.""""


Carl, I was wondering. What ever happened with the case involving rare coin galleries of america who was selling coins allegely "certified" by the png?

Anybody know? I think people lost millions and people went to jail over it.

Tom

 

This is true. I'd imagine it's hard to prove fraud and not just "loose grading standards" unless you have some evidence that the graders knew their grading was much more liberal than the market's in general, and that they intended to exploit this for personal gain.

If someone found a smoking-gun memo (or legally taped telephone conversation) that indicated they knew they were going to "pay" a $50,000 debt by giving coins worth $20,000 but overgraded to *look* like they were giving out $50K in value, you'd have intent and a solid fraud case. Without that proof of intent, criminal action is very hard to pursue. In and of itself, putting AU-58 sliders and MS-62 coins into MS-65 slabs is not grounds for a solid fraud indictment -- even if you profit from the overgrading. You need to show that intent to defraud.

But it's still cause for civil action, which in this case is much easier. You wouldn't have to prove intent to defraud there, merely a preponderance of the evidence to show that the person being "paid" in coins clearly didn't receive the value they were promised. And just looking at the standard difference between the sale prices of a common-date MS-65 Morgan slabbed by PCGS/NGC versus some other "MS-65" Morgan in a disrespected slab, you can clearly show you didn't get the value you negotiated.

 

I don't see that a civil case would be easy. There's a legal agreement to pay the asking price of the coins.

It also depends on how the sale was "pitched" to the customer. I have to think it would make it easier if they were pitched as an investment with the typical sleazoid written stuff in company brochures showing rates of return etc.

But it's still not an easy one and costly from a perspective of lawyers.

Lawsuits cost money. Sometimes ( often) a lot of money. An they take time. Maybe years. Then there's an appeal and more costs and time. When it's all said and done the company is out of business and rolling merily along under a different name or retired.

Tom

 

Interesting. Someone told me I'm being named in the lawsuit now. What did I do?

Tom

 

Well put.

 

I will gladly give Marotta or Mr. Hager any ACG MS67 Morgan in trade for the same Morgan (date/mm) in an NGC or PCGS slab of the same grade.

Chris

 

I don't this Joe is going to answer you Chris. He has not been here in 6 years!

 

*

 

Unfortunately, both the Hager Brothers have passed away.

 

what ever happen to accugrade services/??

 

< Just read. That's all.:thumb:
:thumb:

 

FACTUAL BACKGROUND
14. Beginning in 1995, ACG incorporated in the State of Florida and has provided superior coin grading, certification and authentication services to rare coin dealers and collectors throughout the United States and Canada, including in Seminole County, Florida. ACG has historically been on the cutting edge in terms of innovation in the coin certification and grading industry, having been the first grading service to certify rare coins by certifying and “slabbing” them. ACG was the first entity to provide on-site coin certifying and “slabbing” at trade shows (utilizing both the traditional and two-hour methods) and offers the lowest certification and grading prices in the industry. ACG has not had any major complaints since its inception.
15. Commencing in or about 2001, Defendants, ANA, HERITAGE, PCGS, STUPPLER & CO., STUPPLER, and PNG, in an effort to drive ACG out of business, entered into an agreement to defame Plaintiffs and/or tortiously interfere with ACG’S advantageous business relationships with its dealers and customers. Subsequent to entering into the conspiracies alleged in Counts One and Six below, the Defendants committed a myriad of illicit and overt acts in an effort to further the purpose of the conspiracies including, but not limited to:
a. The ANA (through RCC) and PCGS owned, hosted, controlled, and/or facilitated Internet newsgroups and message boards that permitted and/or condoned various forms of Internet communications containing false and disparaging statements about ACG, its President, and its head grader that were published with intent to injure Plaintiffs and to destroy the advantageous business relationships ACG had traditionally enjoyed with coin dealers and collectors. As a result, there exist hundreds of false and severely negative comments and statements about Plaintiffs in the RCC newsgroup and PCGS message board archives that remain readily available to coin dealers, collectors, and the coin trading public to this day on the web sites set forth in paragraphs 7 and 11, above;
b. The ANA (through its RCC coin club) and STUPPLER proposed, organized, and carried out a group boycott of ACG products and services (See Exhibit “A” attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein);
c. Michael S. Fey, an agent of the ANA, and STUPPLER made unwarranted complaints against ACG and its head grader to the ANA resulting in the ANA attempting to deny ACG “bourse” space at ANA coin shows (See ANA correspondence attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein as Exhibits “B”). In addition, Fey, on behalf of the ANA, contacted an official of the Canadian Numismatic Association in an effort to injure Plaintiffs and to interfere with their business in the Canadian numismatic industry (See Exhibit “C” attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein);
d. PNG and STUPPLER concocted coin grading surveys in 2002 and 2004, solicited opinions about ACG from coin dealers that they knew had little, if any, experience in buying and selling ACG graded coins (and ignored the positive comments of those dealers who had), and publicized the illegitimate results of the “survey” on the PNG and ANA websites and elsewhere (See Exhibit “D” attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein);
e. The ANA (through RCC) and STUPPLER published a list of ACG dealers on the Internet and thereafter caused ACG dealers to be systematically harassed until they ceased doing business with ACG (See Exhibit “K” attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein);
f. HERITAGE refused to sell ACG graded coins on consignment at auction, authorized its President, Gregory Rohan, to appear and present false and disparaging testimony about ACG at an ANA proceeding in March, 2003, and, through its employee (Dustin Johnston) acting in the course and scope of his employment, stated in electronic mail that ACG is “not a recognized grading service” (See Exhibit “E” attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein);
g. PNG disseminated a letter to PNG dealers who had dealt in ACG graded coins that stated that if they continued to sell ACG graded coins they could potentially lose their PNG membership privileges and formed an “Internet Rules Committee” for the specific purpose of deterring coin dealers from buying and selling ACG graded coins. (See copy of the PNG letter attached hereto and incorporated by herein as Exhibit “F”);
16. Beginning in 2001 and continuing thereafter through the present date, in furtherance of the conspiracy alleged in Count One, below, the ANA (through RCC) and PCGS began a campaign of defamation against ACG, its President, DIANE HAGER, and its head grader, ALAN HAGER. The campaign consisted of the publication of false and disparaging statements made by RCC members, via its Internet user newsgroup, and PCGS, through its message board, and by STUPPLER & CO. and/or STUPPLER via electronic mail, about ACG and the HAGERS. Many of the statements can be viewed to this date at the World Wide Web addresses set forth in paragraphs 7 (RCC) and 11 (PCGS), above. Specific examples of these defamatory statements are listed below:
a. the statement on RCC by Ira Stein that ACG “knowingly grades ‘counterfeit’ coins, and ‘fakes”;
b. the statement on RCC by Mark Greene that ALAN HAGER is a “blatant crook”;
c. the statement on RCC by Byron L. Reed that DIANE HAGER is a “*****” and those who deal with ACG are her “johns”;
d. the statement on RCC by Ira Stein that ACG overgraded a lot of coins that resulted in a California widow being defrauded in the amount of $270,000.00;
e. the statement on RCC by Bruce Hickmott that DIANE
HAGER is a “screaming fishwife”;
f. the statements on RCC by Reid Goldsborough that “many people get cheated by ACG every day” and that there is a “huge repository of evidence... that ACG’S very business model is based on deception and cheating”;
g. the statement on RCC by Bruce Hickmott that “ACG is knowingly providing a tool that others are using with intent to defraud”;
h. the statements on RCC by Alan Williams that “the consistent public offering [by ACG] of overgraded and inauthentic coins only devalues everyone’s holdings” and that “ACG is bad for business and fraudulent to the public”;
i. the statements on RCC by Bill Krummel that “…ACG does in fact overgrade and certify counterfeit coins" and that “the overgrading is done knowingly”
j. the statement on RCC by Eric Tillery regarding “…the fraud that is being perpetrated by ACG”;
h. Gregory Rohan’s statement at a March, 2003 ANA hearing that ACG is “basically a fraud” that was transcribed and posted on RCC (See Exhibit “G” attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein);
k. Gregory Rohan’s statement at a March, 2003 ANA hearing that “ I have lost track of the number of counterfeit coins I have seen in ACG holders” that was transcribed and posted on RCC (See Exhibit “G”);
l. Barry Stuppler’s electronic mail to Anthony Royal that “coins in ACG holders can be 2 to 6 grades lower” and “have no liquidity” (See Exhibit “H” attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein);
m. PCGS, via its U.S. Coin Forum message board, facilitated and condoned the creation of false accounts that portrayed the publication of false statements about Plaintiffs as if they were made by ALAN HAGER and DIANE HAGER;
n. the November 18, 2003 statement on the PCGS message board (U.S. Coin Forum) that compared Alan Hager to Charles Manson;
o. the May 17, 2004 statement on the PCGS message board (U.S. Coin Forum) that DIANE HAGER had been arrested in Longwood, Florida and was being investigated for “same sex” prostitution activities (See Exhibit “I” attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein);
p. the March 9, 2005 statement on the PCGS message board (U.S. Coin Forum) that ACG engages in “reliably overgrading” coins;
q. the November 5, 2005 statement on the PCGS message board (U.S. Coin Forum) that “most dealers are too embarrassed to have [ACG graded coins] in their display case”; and
r. the December 24, 2005 statement on the PCGS message board (U.S. Coin Forum) that “the people who own ACG have been so nasty to so many people that they don’t deserve any breaks”.
17. The Defendants published and/or caused the publication of the aforementioned false and disparaging statements commencing in 2001 and their defamatory conduct continues in an unabated fashion to the present date such that the conduct of the Defendants constitutes a continuing tort.At the time of the publication of the defamatory statements, Defendants knew that the statements published were false and/or published or caused their publication with reckless disregard as to the truth or falsity of the statements.
18. ACG originally initiated the above-styled action against several individual RCC members for defamation and tortious interference based on, among other things, statements published as part of the aforementioned Internet users newsgroup. In July and August 2004, once this action was commenced and as part of and in furtherance of the conspiracy alleged in Count One of this action, STUPPLER and/or STUPPLER & CO. and the ANA published a libelous “paid advertisement” to tens of thousands of ANA members throughout the United States and internationally in the ANA monthly publication known as The Numismatist. The “paid advertisement” contained false and disparaging statements attributing fraud and counterfeiting to ACG (by, among other things, re-publishing Gregory Rohan’s slanderous statements made at the ANA complaint “hearing” in March 2003 and set forth in paragraph 16 h. and 16k., above and recounting the false and misleading allegations regarding an elderly woman being defrauded after purchasing ACG graded coins from a telemarketer) and that announced the creation of an unprecedented ANA legal defense fund for the individual RCC members who had been named in the action in order to obstruct ACG from vindicating its rights. Those RCC members being sued only had to pay ANA’S annual dues ($36.00) and they were then fully represented by ANA counsel. (True and correct copies of the “paid advertisement” published in the July and August 2004 issues of The Numismatist is attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein Exhibit “J”)
19. In or about 2001, the Defendants, the ANA (through RCC), HERITAGE, PCGS, PNG, (through it’s “authorized dealer” STUPPLER & CO.), STUPPLER & CO., STUPPLER, utilizing their unique ability to intimidate coin dealers resulting from their combined experience and influence in the rare coin industry, agreed to and began to make false and threatening statements about ACG, both verbally and in writing, to coin dealers that ACG had traditionally enjoyed advantageous business relationships with in that, prior to the these Defendants’ tortious conduct, the coin dealers set forth below would routinely utilize ACG’S services and compensate ACG. (True and correct copies of some of the statements that constituted tortious interference with ACG’s dealer relationships are attached hereto and incorporated by reference herein as Composite Exhibit “K”) The dealers who ceased doing business with ACG subsequent to and as a direct result of Defendants’ tortious conduct include:
a. Causey’s;
b. Greg Katz d/b/a Katz Coins;
c. Rare Coins USA;
d; Bob Johnson d/b/a Centsless;
e. Sal Fusco d/b/a NCA;
f. Joel Rettew, Sr. d/b/a Fast Pay;
g. Rich Stiles d/b/a Rich Stiles & Company;
h. Bruce Maag;
i. Brian Beardsley d/b/a Worldwide Ventures, Inc.
j. Numismatic Financial Corporation, Tim and Ryan Carol;

1. Dave Finelli d/b/a Leandra Collectibles; and

1. Bill Dominick dlb/a Westwood Rare Coins.

The statements and actions of the Defendants that began to alienate ACG dealers in 2001 continue in an unabated fashion through the present date such that they constitute a continuing tort and were knowingly made with intent to interfere with Plaintiffs’ advantageous business relationships. Defendants’ interference with ACG’S advantageous business relationships was undertaken in a willful and wanton manner.
20. All conditions precedent to this action have been fulfilled or waived.
21. Plaintiffs have retained the undersigned attorneys and have agreed to pay them a reasonable fee for their services.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~?????????

 

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT ONE- CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT DEFAMATION [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT TWO-DEFAMATION AGAINST THE ANA[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT THREE-DEFAMATION AGAINST HERITAGE[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT FIVE-DEFAMATION AGAINST STUPPLER & CO. and STUPPLER[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT FOUR-DEFAMATION AGAINST PCGS[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT SIX-CONSPIRACY TO INTERFERE WITH [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif] ACG’S ADVANTAGEOUS BUSINESS REATIONSHIPS[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT SEVEN-TORTIOUS INTERFERENCE AGAINST THE ANA[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT EIGHT-TORTIOUS INTERFERENCE AGAINST HERITAGE[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT NINE-TORTIOUS INTERFERENCE AGAINST PCGS[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT TEN-TORTIOUS INTERFERENCE AGAINST [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]STUPPLER & CO. AND/OR STUPPLER[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]COUNT ELEVEN-TORTIOUS INTERFERENCE AGAINST PNG[/FONT]​

they deserve to shut down,,lol

 

Funny how you magically appear whenever Accugrade is mentioned.