I'm just wondering how vest pocket dealers operate at coin shows. Don't they meet other vest pocket dealers at the show? And don't they conduct deals between tables on occasion?
I would imagine there is a fairly high percentage of responsible gun ownership there - the fear of hot whistling lead can be a real deterrent to much in the way of crime.
The local pawn shops around here will offer you about 10x face when spot is 30-35 dollars. On collectible coins they take you to the cleaners too. I've gone into some pawn shops around here to look at their coins for sale because they have a ton and it always amazes me how little they offer for coins and the fact that people take it. I've sat there wishing I could offer more money and get the stuff but like has been pointed out - but I also like my life - some of these guys seem shady. The local dealers around here offer much more for the stuff so you don't see it as often but around here - the pawnshops are the belly of society and their in the locations they sit for a reason and I would wager 90% of their customers walking in the door with stuff to sell dont' know what they have.
Pawnshops I've been to always have a huge mark up on common silver coins. But then in the same breath some will tell you no one buys silver so some pawn shops won't even take coins for pawn.
At some bourses poaching or buying without a table can get you tossed. It is also bad form to do business in front of a dealer's table without his express permission.
Pawnshops I've been to always have a huge mark up on common silver coins. But then in the same breath some will tell you no one buys silver so some pawn shops won't even take coins for pawn.
I've seen the same thing here. Pawn shops with what are $25 Morgans everywhere else for > $100. I know you're supposed to haggle with them on the price, but I have a hard time working with that starting price. It seems rude to offer $20 for something that has a $100 price tag. I tried it a couple of time and they came down to the $70's and $80's. No wonder nobody is buying coins (from them). If they really wanted to sell them, they wouldn't have let me walk out the door. I'm tempted to take a few in to them to see what they offer. They're probably paying $5-10 and trying to sell them for > $100. When you're selling, they probably say "Nobody wants silver". When you're buying, they probably say "I can sell these all day long for $100".
Yes it can, but I have found that if you are quiet about it and never interrupt a deal, it can be done. If you happen to overhear an offer, and the dealer declines, I see nothing wrong with going up to the person and making your own offer. What I have seen more typically is someone interrupting a potential deal saying, "heck I will pay you more than that", or similar. If you are respectful, never interrupt, and talk to the person wishing to sell AWAY from any tables, then most shows will not "chase you down". However, interrupt a deal at a table, or worst yet try to buy from someone inside someone else's shop, you will get tossed out on your rear and rightly so. There is a LOT of expenses involved in physically being somewhere, and they deserve the opportunity to profit. Only once have I ever bought from another customer inside a shop, and it was with the owner's permission. Someone came in with a nice SL half, and wanted more than the owner was comfortable with. I was VERY POLITELY just listening, but when the dealer said no I quietly asked permission if I could talk to the man. That was a rare circumstance, with 100% permission from the shop owner. That is the ONLY way something like that would ever be permissible.
I have had the opposite happen. My dealer and I couldn't agree on a coin I was trying to sell, he liked it, but didn't need it. A customer heard us talking and waited for me outside the store. He offered me my price, then we walked a block to his bank. He withdrew the cash, i gave him the coin.
But the customer could have just as easily asked the dealer and not risk him getting mad at him. If a dealer sees someone poaching outside his shop he could get mad. If the customer had politely asked if he could talk to you, the dealer probably would have agreed and appreciated the honesty. That way the customer would not risk having the dealer blackball him frmo his shop. It can work that way sir, I am just saying the customer was risking the ire of the dealer, (and rightly so).
You called it "poaching" so I assume you know where it stands ethically. At best you will get chased away from the pawn shop. At worst you'll get shot. Ever see Pulp Fiction?
i sold some cull silver to a guy that said he started out in the bullion business by poaching pawn shop customers in the parking lot. he said he would make them an offer, tell them to go inside and get the pawn shops offer, and wait for them to come back to him.
I went to find one of those set ups where they buy silver and gold in a hotel. I arrived and nobody was there. Along came another customer and I told them that I was not the buyer, but I asked if I could see what they are going to sell. They took some coins out and I gave them an idea what they were worth. The buyer showed up, and seemed concerned. I explained that I didn't offer any money for their coins, but he kicked me out anyway. If he hadn't shown up I might have offered something, but I didn't go there to poach. I was there to see if he would sell anything, but he told me that they were buyers only. I think I may have helped out the customers a little.
I have a bit of an ethical issue with someone poaching outside of a B&M, but all ethics go out the proverbial door when it comes to hotel/bank buyers.
Just wondering out loud here... Would a person need a peddlers' license to stand on the public sidewalk in front of a coin store with a sign hanging around his neck saying he buys coins? Not that I have time to do that, and I suppose much would depend on the local ordinances, that's why I'm just wondering...
He'd probably want to have an attorney on retainer. Might need a lot more depending on the owner of the B&M.
I would have a problem with it. Why there? Its because that dealer has spent money running a business, advertising, etc. Nothing is stopping you from doing it somewhere else, but in front of a store who spends money attracing customers to me is wrong. Nothing is stopping people from educating themselves to get better prices. If they wish to do no work, then they are just shortchanging themselves. It is like if you have a used car. You can just go to a random dealer and accept what he offers, or educate yourself on the value and better places to sell.
I get the ethical part of it, I was just curious about the legal aspect: Ethical does not always mean legal. Legal does not always mean ethical. Not ethical does not always mean not legal. Not legal does not always mean not ethical. I did a little research on the subject, and I don't think we have any restrictions about people standing on the sidewalk in downtown Bozeman and conducting business. The only requirement I've seen is a person might need an itenerant vendor license, which costs $30. But there doesn't seem to be any restriction about where an itenerant vendor may conduct business, as long as they are not obstructing traffic on a public sidewalk or road. Our city is just now getting to the point where they're considering establishing some rules for street vendors selling food. We have a few new merchants in town that will park a truck on a busy street downtown and sell food. Some of the local restaurant owners have commented that they don't have any problem with the competition, because they're not necessarily catering to the same customers. Others do have a problem with them, but mostly from the perspective that they are having the same if not greater impact on city services than the restaurants are, but they aren't paying the same taxes. All that being said, I wouldn't do this to either of the coin stores in Bozeman. I'm not really thrilled about the more established store takes advantage of some uneducated customers, but like you said, nothing is stopping them from educating themselves. Also, I do occasionally buy stuff from them, so I'd hate to be banned from their store. But, if I found out they were doing the same kind of stuff that those fly-by-night hotel PM buyers do, i.e. flat out lie to people about the PM content or worth of their items, then maybe I would stand outside with a sign that says "I buy precious metals and I pay a whole lot more than these clowns!" :devil:
I don't think it's unethical to stand on public property and do it. Just stay out of the parking lot, etc.
