1873 cc Trade Dollar

All other issues aside, I only wish to point out that comparing a mintmark position to just any genuine example is not a good way of determining authenticity as there can/will be differences in placement depending on the reverse die used. While I am not sure of how many reverse dies were actually used in Carson for the 73 Trade dollar, four die pair were shipped from Philadelphia, so it goes to reason that there was more than one reverse die, especially considering the mintage and era.

 

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I thought the same thing too , glad you brought it up though .

 

I'd say it's worth a buck or two as a fake. It would make a great example piece for the class on Coin Scams that I'm teaching at the Plano Rec Center. If you're interested in selling it (or donating it to the class for a copy of my materials), please send me a PM.

 

There is a guy at Coin World who has a huge collection of Chinese (and other) fakes, but I don't know his name. He visits local Ohio coin clubs every so often, brings an exhibit, and gives a talk.

 

I'll just leave this here...




[TD="align: center"]

[TD="class: doggn_bold, colspan: 3, align: center"]The Sheldon Grading Scale[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, colspan: 2, align: left"]Perfect Uncirculated[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal"]MS70[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, align: left"]Superb Gem Uncirculated[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]MS69
MS68
MS67
MS66[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]Gem Uncirculated[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]MS65
[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]Choice Uncirculated[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]MS64
MS63
MS62[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]Uncirculated[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]MS61
MS60[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]About Uncirculated[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]AU58
AU55
AU53
AU50[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]Extremely Fine[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]XF45
XF40[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]Very Fine[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]VF35
VF30
VF25
VF20[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]Fine[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]F15
F12[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]Very Good[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]VG10
VG8[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]Good[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]G6
G4[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]About Good[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]AG3[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"] Fair[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]FR2[/TD]

[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 213, align: left"]Poor[/TD]
[TD="class: doggn_normal, width: 48, colspan: 2"]PO1

[/TD]
[/TD]

 

Well, yes, but there is NO MS10-20. That's what puzzled me...

 

Thanks for the heads up on this. While I do not personally own a '73, I examined several pictures online and could not find a '73 CC with that same mint mark placement. Do you have a photo you could put up?

 

I was digging around in my collection today to take some new photos and came across this $150 mistake. Thought I would post it here so Tom (Papabear) can know that he's not alone. Many people have had to learn this lesson the hard way...

I keep it to remind me that there are many fakes out there, and because it's silver.

 

Papabear, 50% of respondees have probably made the same mistake. I actively collect counterfeits & am about to get another from a member.
About a decade ago, I had a quote on each of my posts from R.S. Yeoman, which read " The greatest investment you can make in numismatics, is knowledge". Take that advice & you'll be fine.

 

Though it isn't a very good fake , since you said it was silver do you have the weight of the piece ? Thanks for posting it .

 

I bought the coin off an old man at a coin show (walking around / didn’t have a booth), and it looked real to me, and was definitely silver. I do not know the exact weight, but a couple years back I took it to Dallas Gold and Silver Exchange for authentication. They performed a silver test and were baffled by the fake actually being made from silver, and said that it was slightly underweight. The counterfeiters used some kind of brown stain to simulate toning. – I snapped that picture without removing it from the airtite, so it looks a little more blurry that it actually is. – Live and learn…

 

John,

I am unsure of exactly what you are asking. If for photos of each mintmark position for each genuine reverse used, this should be a simple enough quest. As I mentioned in the previous post, four reverse dies were shipped from Philly (I am not sure of any previous year rev dies were or could have been used), so if you search photos of genuine examples and can identify each die by its mintmark position (or other markers), this would give you something to compare any questionable coins to.

 

I am asking: do you have a picture of a real 73-CC trade dollar that has the CC mint mark in the same position as the the one on the OP's fake trade dollar?

 

I would have to check, but being as it is not that good of a fake, I highly doubt much effort was made to use proper mintmark placement.

 

That is my point exactly. The mint mark is a dead giveaway. Not sure what you have been talking about the last couple pages. - No offense.

 

I said ONE thing intended as an informative addition to your post. When someone says that a mintmark position is wrong, yet makes no mention of other dies being used, even if YOU knew better, other lesser experienced members could take it to heart and assume that this is a good way to identify counterfeits. In the earlier post you said nothing of having looked at different examples, so I felt that it might be helpful to point this out.

As for the mintmark being a "dead giveaway", maybe the next time you should point out that you compared it to every known reverse die used instead of making a blanket statement that could easily be misinterpreted by a newbie. No offense.

Sorry for trying to help.

 

:rollling:

 

My feelings exactly.

 

Sorry not for sale. I am keeping it for my collection as an example of a fake.

Thank you all for the information. I have learned a ton and so far have read quite a bit of this forum. Great place with tons of information and a great bunch of helpful Members . Many thanks
Tom