Why ancient collectors hate slabs

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROMAN-EMPIR...ultDomain_0&hash=item20ce883312#ht_1022wt_917

How about that one!

First, there is no AU in ancient grading, that is a modern US grade.

Second, I would never pay more than F money for this coin, as that is its grade. It may have left the mint that way, but who cares? That is about the worst reverse I have seen on an ancient short of a coin grading G.

At least its centered.....

 

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I suppose but at the same time I don't think that's an excuse not to slab ancients. Theirs plenty of NGC MS world coins that I would never MS money for a variety of reason
Toning, strike etc

 

I think slabs are the best storage medium for ancient coins.

Since they are not perfectly round, you cannot use an air-tite, or any other kind of hard plastic holder with a circle encasement.

Some are also really thick, making it hard to use them in a Mylar 2x2.

 

If the grades are all wrong, (and frequently attributions, the same seller has a NNC slabbed coin as "hepthalite" when the coin is clearly nezak hun), why are you paying to slab again? To guarantee authenticity? That is the only benefit I would see, and the downfall would be:

1. Money lost to the hobby in slabbing fees
2. Coin is entombed. You cannot weigh it, examine its edges, touch it, etc.
3. Imposition of a "foreign" grading system. Ancient collectors have had their grading system in place for hundreds of years, why should we change to some other system for the "privilege" of paying some firm money?

 

Most are already weighed, as this slab clearly has the weight, as do many others.

No, NGC uses ANA grading standards, and the ANA course does not teach whatever system you guys use. Most collectors are familiar with the US system, and those wanting to get into ancients don't want to have to learn a whole new system, like learning another language.

Why would you want to touch it? The oils from your skin can do a lot of damage to 500-3000 year old copper and silver. Best to leave where you can't touch it.

Bingo. You should see some of the latest fake ancients our "friend" China is putting out, they are getting really good at it.

Buy them already slabbed, problem solved.

Most ancients I have seen (seen, not known) do not have anything on the edge. I've never seen an ancient with reeds on the edges.

The newer NGC slabs allow for edge viewing.

 

I think it really depends on the individual at the end of the day. I personally don't collect ancients; however I plan on obtaining a byzantinian Anastasius gold solidus for my world gold collection sometime in the future. As such the authenticity alone for me is worth more than all the other factors you mentioned. Plus(this is just my assumption) I assume the bid ask spreadsheets for a lot of ancients are probably very far from one another due to the narrow market. I would guess the third parties help narrow the margin if not just a little.

Please keep in mind your reasons are all valid and I completely understand why you don't prefer stabbing. I simply believe it has its uses for other people.
The only point I would argue with you over is the attribution. If you collect ancients you should be aware of any mistakes on the slab if they appear. If this occurs you can send it back to NGC and to my knowledge they would reattribute it provided they made the mistake free of charge.

 

Wow.

 

For that Philip II I wouldnt pay no more then $20 for that coin. Its a P.O.S.

Now my question. Is that philp II a rome mint or eastern? Usually easterns have this rough look. Also easterns tend to sell for a bit more then rome mint. I am not good at telling the difference in this era of rome. Usually its the crap silver that gives it away.


Deteco, your post made me chuckle . Ancients are a whole different world then moderns.

 

Is that "Wow" in a good way? :devil:

 

No bid/ask in ancients. We have something like 100,000 TYPES, let alone dates, etc.

Its fair if you wish nothing more to ensure a coin is genuine, but I will warn you this is pretty dangerous. If you do not know how to grade ancients, the grade on these slabs will do NOTHING to help you find out if you are paying a fair price or not. That is my warning here. The coin I posted is worth F money at best. Anyone blindly accepting its an AU and paying higher than what a Vcoins dealer is charging for an XF is getting MAJORLY hosed.

Do us a favor Fred and post pics of any ancient you are interested in. You have friends here to help.

 

ancient coins have survived perfectly well for countless centuries without the need for a plastic coffin, so why is there suddenly a need to have it "slabbed"?? all you are doing is lining someones pocket by paying them to grade and entomb your beautiful celtic or greek coins.........................

 

I wouldn't dare purchase an ancient presently withought reading some literature and withought some form of opinion especially with my lack of knowledge on the subject. I really appreciate the kindness though and will most definitely ask you guys for opinions on ancients prior to a buy.

 

Slabbing ancients should be a criminal offence.It is all down to strike,centring,eye appeal,quality of metal.All TPG's can go where the sun don't shine.If you don't know your subject avoid.

 

I don't collect ancients. However, I have bought one ANACS slabbed ancient. I wanted to have a coin for when the common folk ask me "What's the oldest coin you've got?" Non-collectors seem to ask that often.
So, I bought a coin that was already attributed, protected, etc. since my ancient knowledge is very lacking. Buying it slabbed seemed to make the most sense, because all the work was done for me, and it's a better presentation than a flip with a coin in one side and the attribution scrawled on a scrap of paper in the other side.

Just my two cents. Any thoughts from you ancient guys?

 

that is the overwhelming response you get from the majority of uk collectors me included, part of the enjoyment of collecting ancients is the tactility of the coin.

 

Well, considering I was selling attributed, nice late romans in F/VF for about $6 here its hard for me to fathom why people wish to spend money having someone encapsulate them.

Why wouldn't you want to be able to pull the coin out and let the non-collectors handle it? People love it a lot more when they can feel it than just looking through plastic. There are tens or hundreds of millions of authentic ancient coins, if you buy one from a good dealer chances are almost zero that its a fake, especially for a lower value coin.

PM your address Lon. I will send you an ancient that is attributed and you can let people touch.

 

For argument's sake. Which would you non ancient collectors prefer. The coin in the first post, or mine?

I paid $35 for it in late 2011.


Philip II, (247 - 249 A.D.)
AR Antoninianus
O: M IVL PHILIPPVS CAES, Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, from behind.
R: PRINCIPI IVVENT, Philip II standing left in military dress holding globe in right and inverted spear in left.
Rome
21.5mm
4.9g
SRCV III 9240, RIC IV 218d, RSC IV 48

 

I don't really understand why someone would do it, I thought the purpose was to keep the coin untouched, surely this coin was touched hundreds of times by Romans, the coin in my opinion isn't worth more than £15 ($25), is it pricey to have these things graded and put into the case? and then you have to pay out on postage costs....I always touch my coins however I like, I have never seen any of my coins loose there charm.....slabs are evil!

 

I don't care for them in medieval coins, frankly I think NGC's opinion does absolutely nothing for me. I have some Scots silver in holders, but I bought for the coin and not the stupid grade on the plastic.

I have not been above cracking them out of the tomb if they are not high priced to begin with. I busted poor Anne out of her tomb:



With this coin I wasn't afraid of damaging it, it is a large crown that is a clunker anyway.

 

This statement about applying modern-coin-grading standards to ancient coins, while it may seem logical to collectors of modern coins, really doesn't make sense.

Think about this analogy: if you were buying an old car -- say, from the 1930s or 1920s -- would you apply modern metrics to evaluate it? Would you test its 0 - 60 MPH acceleration time? Measure its tailpipe emissions? Crash test it to see how well it holds up in a fully frontal crash? Of course not. You'd evaluate the old car in metrics that make sense relative to how old cars are evaluated - rarity, condition, desirability, demand, etc.

Ancient coins have been catalogued and evaluated by their own standards for, literally, hundreds of years. The metrics by which modern coins are graded are appropriate for coins stamped by high pressure devices that mass-produce these coins. But they're simply not appropriate to apply to ancients. It's not that there are no similarities; certainly, the quality of a struck coin can be poor for a modern coin as well as an ancient. But while there may be hundreds or thousands of MS 65 1909 S VDB Lincoln cents, there are NO equal-quality Ides of March denarii among the fewer than 200 known. Modern grading standards make no sense for these coins.

Also, no serious collector will ever purchase a high-quality ancient coin that has been slabbed, unless he/she is an idiot. Any dealer purchasing for such a collector will insist on removing the coin from the slab and visually inspecting it himself prior to recommending the purchase to the collector. Even for modestly priced ancients, slabbing adds no value except in the rare circumstance where the purchaser may be a relative or complete novice to the hobby, and is not able to have a trusted dealer or friend validate the authenticity of the coin. In this circumstance, it may make some sense to purchase a slabbed ancient coin, but if the novice collector ends up expanding his/her collection, he'll soon find out that he'd much prefer to have the coins out of the slab.

There is simply no way to describe the wonder and tactile sense of holding a 2000-year-old Roman bronze sestertius in your own hand. Try it sometime -- you'll quickly understand why ancients are rarely slabbed.