People's Court coin dispute!

Upon further research this is correct. The fund is based on the size of the claim but will at least cover. At first I was baffled by this and a little upset as clearly they could not be that good of actors correct?

But as it works out - say the suit is $5000 and the fund is $7000. If the plaintiff wins, they will receive $6000 and the defendant $1000. Otherwise it will be $3500 apiece, so there is definitely still money on the line.

Upon further reflection, if you could just constantly scam people and have all your lawsuits go to People's Court you'd be set!

 

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HAHA, I love the observation made in one of the top comments:

 

A few other people caught that too, it's earned Jules his own video (with some added sound effects):
[video=youtube;ei_QQU2IHHE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei_QQU2IHHE[/video]

 

The coin dealer.

 

I have seen that a long time ago to. Now watching the full episode.

 

Wow. That is a dealer I would never want to buy from just by looking at him. I think she should have got a refund if a notable coin grading service said it was Chloroxed. I think the lack of knowledge with coin collecting from the judge ultimitly was the problem. I feel sorry for the lady.

 

From some of her statements I am thinking "cloroxed" is referring to being artificially toned?. From the color it certainly wasn't dipped.

 

Have you, or has anybody, heard the term chloroxed? I've never heard it before in my life.
The way she described it, it sounded like Artificial toning. But just by the term itself, I'd think it was some sort of improper harsh cleaning.

 

A dilute Clorox (sodium hypochlorite) solution will "artificially tone" a silver coin, especially one that has previously been cleaned. The plaintiff was accusing the seller of being a coin doctor, and not a very good one; hypochlorite has a tendency to produce ugly, garish, purple colours and is usually readily identifiable as AT by the experts.

Sap posted it: http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=60349

 

This case was a trainwreck on both sides.

The plaintiff might have won if only she had been better prepared. She's using a price written on the back of a business card as evidence? And the fax with a blurb scribbled on it? Plus, she waits FOUR YEARS to bring suit against the guy? Who's to say she didn't alter the coin in that time? Did she say she was a Realtor? Or is she just "in the real estate business"? If that's the case, she might work for a real estate company in any capacity. But, if she is actually a "Realtor", she should know about caveat emptor, and thorough documentation, and civil lawsuits. Even if she's in the real estate business as an investor, she should know more than the apparently does.

The defendant is an idiot. For a person that was allegedly "one of the original members of PCGS", why didn't he know what the acronym stands for? Even if he didn't hear the term "Chloroxed" before, I'm 100% certain he knows what they were referring to. But, I guess he was smart enough to know she didn't have a case against him, so he didn't really have to do much.

Did the bailiff remove the coin from the flip? It looks like that me. I think it was in a flip when she took it out of her purse, then he handed just the coin to the judge. Stupid bailiff...

 

Oy, Jules looks like he was hit by a 2 by 4.

She [the judge] is rubbing the coin!

PCGS= Pacific Coast? Jules, really. 50 years in business?

Gimme a break!

 

Wow if that is not the understatement of the day! I thought the oversized slovenly fool traipsing in through the doors casually letting the door fly into the woman following him on some scooter was rather telling.

 

What did Jules do? Sleep in that outfit?

Who buys a $5000 coin without a plastic wrapper? Especially someone who has only been collecting for 7 years. I'm sure Jules had a return policy. Why didn't she consult her 'expert' after she got the coin in hand? Something that valuable most certainly needs a look at by a second set of eyes. It's obvious that the women was buying the coin for investment purposes and when she found out that the coin hadn't met her expectations of return she took the dealer to court. How many times have we discussed the merits of investment regarding numismatic items on this forum? There is no guarantee of profit.

Heritage sends the women a fax (stating the coin to be Cloroxed) with no company letterhead? Looked fishy to me.

The judge paws and lovingly caresses the coin......Jules can't remember what PCGS stands for.......and did you see that crowd of wild women outside on the street passing judgement in the court of public opinion? Plenty of stupidity meted out on all sides people.........

 

Jules actually does have something like 50 years in the coin business. Did anyone else recognize the name? I did. he is one of the dealers who used to runs one of those multi-page ads every week in the first few pages of Coin World and has a reputation for shipping cleaned AU slider Morgans out as Brilliant Uncirculated. Much of the material he sold was raw and for a reason. As far as being "one of the original members of PCGS, he probably means one of the first authorized dealer members from back in 1986/87. I don't think he is claiming to be a founder. I am surprised though that he didn't remember what the acronym stood for.

Frankly the judge made the right decision in the case. The plaintiff had no evidence of fraud or even misrepresentation. She had no evidence of what grade he claimed it was, no evidence that he made any representation that it was original, or not messed with, or that it would be gradable. All she had was a low buy offer, and a fax cover sheet with a note written on it that the coin had been chloroxed (a term I have heard before). As the judge pointed out there was no identification other than a first name as to who the note was from and no references as to qualifications.

The woman says she is in real estate and she saw that bullion had out performed real estate so she was trying to have some money in both to protect herself. I hate to tell here this but a 1795 dollar is not "bullion". She saw that one thing was outperforming real estate so she bought something else. She says she contacted him and asked for a 1795 dollar. He didn't have one but he got one and apparently told her it will be $X. She said fine, bought it, and seemingly made not effort to investigate it for year until she tried to sell it. (Some people here have mentioned four years. I do not know when this episode aired but she says she bought the coin in 2005.) If she had brought in something from Jules where he had even specified a grade it might have helped her case a little, but unless he made the statement that it was original or unaltered she would have a hard time making a fraud charge stick. She also has a problem confusing altered and not authentic. That hurt her case as well because she said it was not authentic and it is, it just isn't original. This was just a case of some one who didn't know what they were doing making a bad/uninformed buy and now wanting to not take responsibility for it. (As for the comment about who would pay $5,000 for a raw coin, there are two kinds of people who would. Those who have no idea what they are doing, and those who KNOW what they are doing.)

And as for the folk criticizing him for letting the door swing closed on the woman in the wheelchair, Do you stop and check every time you go through a door to make sure there isn't a person in a wheelchair following in behind you? I don't. I push the door open, walk through, and let go of the door. Now if I HAPPEN to notice there is someone coming in behind me (wheelchair or not) I will tend to hold the door. Everyone seems to be assuming he did it deliberately. He never looked behind himself so I would assme he didn't know she was following him in. I see nothing inappropriate in his actions there.

 

Nice analysis. Appreciate the info about Jules; he seemed like a shyster from the video even though I can't speak of anything specific he did in the video that led me to that impression (besides allegedly selling a cleaned coin and letting the door slam on a crippled lady).

As for the crippled lady, having watched hundreds of People's Courts, I am 99.99% sure that the people entering the courtroom behind the plaintiffs and defendants are part of their group and sit next to them in the courtroom. In other words not random spectators. So basically it is worse as this is a crippled lady who is part of his group (family member probably?) and so he knew for a fact she was behind him and laid up.

 

The lady on the chair was with him (his wife, maybe?). You can tell because she followed him to sit on the side of the plaintiff's stand. And beside that, she was close enough to him that there is no way he didn't know she was there. Jules is a selfish low-life.

 

Hmmm. 50 Years in the business, has been doing frequent business with Heritage over the past 40 years, was an "original member of PCGS AND NGC, yet..................he's never heard the term "chloroxed" or "bleached"?

I don't know Jules and have never met him but, at this point in time, I would not want to meet him nor do business with him as it is intuitively obvious to those of us that have "only" been in the business for maybe 5 years that he was definitely playing his stupid card.

I'm of the opinion that he knew full well what was going on here and his legal staff advised him to play that stupid card which he did quite well.

For that matter, the plaintiff should have sought her own counsel before ever agreeing to the show since she sealed her own fate. I think this Jules knew this as well.

Are their people out there with more money than brains? Absolutely! We read about them everyday on these very forums.
Are there dealers out there willing to victimize these brainless folks? Absolutely! We read about them everyday on these very forums!

Is there anything that can be done? Sure! But you'd better have some iron-clad evidence as the "good ole boy" network of coin dealers is very broad AND protective.

Based soley on the video, I would not even consider doing business with the subject coin dealer as, to me, he's proven that he's a deceiver and a very good one at that. So good, that he doesn't really have to lie, just let the customer believe what they want and then run off with the money and claim ignorance if no solid evidence can be produced.

Anybody thats ever been victimized by one of these scum bags knows exactly what I'm referring to.

NEVER....EVER.........go to a coin dealer and state that you have "x" amount of dollars and are seeking to invest it in coins!

Put your money in the bank and then do some research!

 

Key word, "invest".......there's smarter ones out there to hoodwink the unwary and uninitiated. The collecting endeavor and investing endeavor are mutually exclusive. Folks with less time in this hobby be warned. There are sharks in the water. Rumpled suit Jules walked away the winner but the lady in question was driven by greed and the desire to 'flip' and make mas mucho bucks. Ya wanna do that you gotta get up early. Me? I sleep in..........

 

Or maybe that was where the seating for the handicapped/people in wheelchairs etc. was. The main seating was bench type and you can't leave wheelchairs/scooters etc blocking isles