1889-CC morgan Smart purchase or REALLY BAD one.

Hey! Good luck!

That coin may not be real, but I am nearly positive that it was not cast even without your picture. Cast coins do not have luster.

 

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Yupp, the original one does. This one is a clone. That is how it is done in China for good date Morgans, or didn't you learn that yet in your teenage years?

 

Nope, I am accusing China of cloning PCGS coins and selling them all over the place.

 

Close up of apparent die clash pic asked for earlier.

 

Those Bejing Mints must have die clashes a lot.

 

Doesn't the 2009 heritage coin look lightly cleaned? there seem to be many horizontal lines.

 

We made it to page 8! :hail:


...And they said it couldn't be done...

 

Man, you don't give up do you. That picture came straight from Heritage http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?hdnJumpToLot=1&saleNo=1126&lotNo=1363&x=0&y=0. That is the same coin Heritage sold in the same slab they sold. The scratches match exactly. The toning matches exactly. The glare matches exactly. Even the color of the hologram matches exactly. Yet somehow you claim it is a fake. And you even restate it is a Chinese fake. Absolutely no supporting documentation or commentary. Just because you say it is. I am missing something here.

 

The coin looks lifeless but it's very difficult to tell from pics whether it real or not. Personally I think it's a real Morgan but it's been incorrectly stored. Let's see what the OP finds out, if he ever comes back.

 

Took the words right outta my mouth. :thumb:

Morgandude11, your persistence in proving your point was admirable at first, I must admit, but now since you've clearly been proven wrong yet continue to banter, your persistence is just turning into ignorance...

And lose the condescending tone. :rollling:

 

This same thread is on another coin forum. Same responses there. Im hoping the original poster comes back with the grading results. And to the posters that said this is a bad fake, it's really not. We have all seen horrible fakes, and if this is one it is a good one. This coin can fool many collectors even highly expierenced collectors. Top tier TPG's have graded fakes this good so that's more than enough proof that there is a possibility this is authentic.

 

Rob, this photo has me puzzled. It appears to be a die crack from the denticles to the "E" in AMERICA, and it has some metal displacement. I went to the VAMWorld listings and checked all of them, but there is no mention of this particular crack, nor does it show up in any photo.

Chris

 

Indeed, I thought it looked like a die crack in the original pics, and the new close-ups seem to confirm that.

To Rob, the problem is that a die crack hasn't been documented in that area for the '89-CC (at least one isn't mentioned in the VAM book or VamWorld). I've also gone through a good deal of '89-CCs and haven't seen any with a die crack in that area, or even the faintest start of one. For a common Morgan, an undocumented die crack wouldn't be that big of a deal, but the '89-CC has been heavily studied, and its die pairs and stages are well documented. Also, the mintage was fairly short, so there are only 6 know die pairs, possibly only 5, and only 3 (VAM 2, 4 and 5) that have identified die stages. The other problem I see is that the die crack on your coin is fairly strong which means it would have been struck later in the die life; yet no '89-CCs have been recorded with any degree of cracking in that area.

Hopefully you've gotten a chance to count the reeding, that may help narrow things down.

 

Being condescending was not intended. I just am absolutely sure it is a fake and that the whole story was concocted. To answer the really condescending one (Rim Cents), whose expertise isn't Morgans, and who seems to want to have a battle, which I refuse to get involved in on a personal level, the coin pictured is a clone of a Heritage Auction coin. It is owned by somebody I know--it is most definitely a clone of the Heritage one, and are the Chinese capable of producing work that good? Yes they are. For the last time, as I don't wish to be bellicose, but am insistent, I will only believe that the OPs coin is not fake when I see it in a PCGS or NGC holder. However, given the likelihood of it being fake, he shouldn't waste the money, as I have posted other pictures of counterfeits that are far superior to his coin. Y'all judge for yourselves--I have bigger fish to fry in getting ready for knee surgery. If you want to believe the "bargain 1899CC theory," be my guest and be happy.

I added this link to show the process of making sophisticated fakes in China. As you can see from this site, the quality of the fakes are very good. Ask yourself if they are going to spend more time on a coin that can be sold for a few thousand dollars? Of course they are, and they are good at it. Some of their PCGS clones have fooled very experienced collectors--both the slab and the coin detail is incredibly good.

Link:http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/Chinese-Fake-Morgan-Dollars.htm

 

If you really believe that coin you have pictured from Heritage is a Chinese counterfeit, I will gladly take it off your hands. Very gladly.

BTW, for all your posts, I still have seen no explanations save that the coin is obviously fake and the odds are it is a fake. I mean the supposed purpose of this thread/forum was to share knowledge.

And, if you don't with to be bellicose or condescending, then don't be.

And lastly, it would at least be a bit helpful if you would learn my name.

 

This entire post is condescending. I guess this is what ignore lists are for.

 

I agree with rlm (with a lower case "L")... the picture Morgandude posted is the Heritage photo. It's not a clone, it's not a fake, it's not a replica. It's one in the same. Now there may well be a similar "cloned" '89-CC (and probably many) in fake PCGS slabs, but this isn't one of them.

 

I just stated that the picture of the coin in question is owned by a friend, and is a fake. That should tell you something about the quality of Chinese clones--they are really very good.

 

So good that they clone the pictures also? That is going a bit above and beyond, isn't it?

And still no explanations?