1889-CC morgan Smart purchase or REALLY BAD one.

Close up pictures of the reeding around the edge of the coin would be a great help in determining authenticity. I read this thread and saw how off track this thread became but most of us on here enjoy helping people answer their questions.

 

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When a newbie comes in with one of the most desirable coins in collector's opinions, and won't talk about its origin or where they got it, or what they paid and asks a ton of questions, I get suspicious. Sorry if that offended you, but counterfeit 89CCs abound, and sellers and purveyors of them are boundless. I tend to be suspicious of anybody who has scored an"instant extremely valuable coin;" Sorry, but that is good old-fashioned skepticism. Nothing personal intended--the genuineness of the coin was what was being called into question, along with your cryptic response with only a history of 17 posts. Imagine how it looks--"Hey here I am as a newbie, and I have an $8000 coin that I got with some mystery." I like dialogue, but tend to be skeptical about instant riches and rarities.

 

Rob, the only thing to protect you against fakes is knowledge and skepticism. Knowledge would include reading about other threads here and other publications on the modern fakes, having tools like a good scale and caliper to make sure the coin is exactly in spec, getting good books on Morgans that will go over things like reed counts for certain issues, etc.

Skepticism would be "why would someone who knows this is a rare date advertise to the general public instead of simply taking a valuable coin to a dealer or consign it to auction?". I buy what I consider good deals but its because I know more about the coin than the seller, something MUCH harder to do with US coins. Unless you are a major VAM collector you do not know more about this coin most likely than the seller. Why then, the "great deal"? I know I won't sell a coin way under the market to someone I don't know just because I am a nice guy, I doubt many people would. That itself would cause me to look at this coin 1000 different ways, and get others opinions about it, before considering purchasing it.

As to the coin itself, like I have said its hard with just a photo. I will say it appears to have the same "shen", or total look of the coin, of other really good fakes I have seen lately like 1916 SL quarters and rare date morgans. Its the surface, it just doesn't "pop" like it should, almost like a BU coin that has been messed with a little. That is the best I can describe it.

Hope that helps, and hope you continue participating in CT.

Chris

 

I think it is genuine. All the really small details I can see look good.

Only place I thought may have looked a little off was the eagle's head. I think it is just the way the light is hitting it.

 

IMO this coin actually looks worse than the OP's

 

Boy, not very many threads end up like this where it's split regarding the authenticity of a coin.

 

On the other hand, if all said it was a true 1889-cc, then you should also take that cautiously too. If many said to get it graded by PCGS or NGC, you should think that the small chance it might be good and would be of great value. Some fakes are obvious, some can fool the graders until they get another with marks in exactly the same place and puts them on alert to it. You might waste $50 if it isn't, but gain much more if it is good.

If you showed this coin to a group of 10 dealers, I think you would get the same comments of doubt, so this thread's participants have behaved normally.

You are right, the thread is repeating, so best of luck to you, please come back and tell us the results.
Jim

 

Based on my previous experience with "Questionable Authenticity" coins and TPG, I suggest that before recommending submission, that those individuals read the OP of this thread (and the follow-up 2nd post): http://www.cointalk.com/t216050/

I'm one who responds to "Questionable" offerings, often acquiring as part of a personal educational process, items to determine the capabilities of "experts". I've realized like results.

I'll acquire "questionable items", and submit to all of the "experts" for a response. As one of my legal associates often states, "all I have to sell is an opinion". My similar experience is that because of potential legal ramifications, a submitter is likely to receive nothing of value for their appreciable expense. If I wanted an experienced opinion, I'd submit to the least expensive "credible" service.

In my opinion, Craigslist, when properly utilized, is one of the best resources for buying/selling. Unlike other internet exchange venues, there isn't an intermediary involved in the ultimate contract. The commodities can be physically examined by yourself or another authority of your choice, rather than an irresponsible third party. The transfer location/terms are negotiable, and all expenses generally known.

As one who has expended great effort to acquire the best specimens of "Copy" coins from the experts, I've accumulated a premier collection of "questionable" items which generally can't be authenticated or denied. Appropriate items are often taken along for comparative efforts when acquiring items in a personal exchange. I'll trust myself to determine authenticity, when material, weight, dimensions, and surfaces/design are deemed probable.

If the OP has taken the precautions indicated with the assistance of a valued physical examiner, I suspect that without minimally extending comparable efforts, we'll only create additional questions. I believe reasonable efforts have been extended, possibly with the exception of submission for a physical examination by the least expensive TPG. I've determined that expensive authentication may be futile.

I personally love acquiring Gem condition Carson City coins, but will admit that I need a personally acceptable image, and a TPG "slabbed" enclosure. :thumb:

 

All depends if he bought it from a person that came off as knowledgeable about coins or not. You could ask the same question to the millions of people that have sold their gold and silver at 50% or less of melt value to we buy gold shops.

The person may simply not of known what they had, its certainly a possibility.

 

All I will input is that overall the coin appears to be genuine. However, I am no expert at all and will agree that the reverse looks a little....off. I would also agree with bringing it in to an honest dealer and get his opinion.

 

I agree, though someone who knows the value of a silver dollar BECAUSE its an 89cc usually have also heard of slabbing or coin stores. The average seller of gold is pretty clueless.

Since the seller, by knowing its a rare coin but not going to where an average person would sell a rare coin, it makes me very suspicious of his motives. Makes me think he had a reason NOT to go to a local coin store, but advertise on CL instead.

But, Jim is right, we are repeating, so I will wait to see what a TPG says.

 

I am not an expert on Morgan fakes, but I do know a little about other things. With that said, I only have the evidence submitted to go on. If I were a betting man, I would say the coin is a counterfeit. With more information on where and how the deal went down, more info about the seller, and the purchase price, I might change my mind, but I doubt it. I am pretty sure that more information on the aforementioned aspects would tend to make this coin look more like a fake than not.

 

Hate to say it, but you sound like a dang lawyer.

 

Thank you. :devil:

 

So, in law school, do they teach you how to write five sentences and not say anything?

Sorry man, I just had to.

 

No! Their goal is 2000 pages and still mean nothing like most bill Congress passes.

 

Ouch! That hurt.

I just want the facts. Without having the coin in hand, these other facts become highly relevant to anybody on CT to give a fair answer.

 

OK, everyone turn on the lawyer now.

 

Hey, you guys are trespassing on my territory without permission! Where's my lawyer?

Chris

 

Need a 2000 page brief?