Are Norfed sales on the blink?

scottishmoney-
One of these days you'll have to steer me towards the better Παντικάπαιον threads. I've vacationed there a few times.

Also, this:

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Siberia is beautiful, but the parts I have been in are not accessible by train - only plane all the time, and by 4 wheel drive for during winter months.

At all possible smart people take trains. You travel overnight usually and actually it is good trip when you have interesting local travellers. I have flown in aircrafts, like Yak-42 - but they are known even by my ex VVS friends as unsafe aircrafts and unless I have long road trip somewhere with no possibility of train travel, only then will take aircraft because even as unsafe as they are in E. Europe they still safer than roads.

 

I think the only difference between Von NotHaus and Daniel Carr is that Daniel mints old coins or fantasy pieces and of course Bernie has minted everything from the Tea Party Dollar to the Ron Paul Dollars but they have all been modern looking coins. Wouldn't that be something if Bernie throws Daniel under the bus when he gets sentenced? Maybe telling the judge, "hey what about Daniel Carr, he designed a couple of quarters for the US Mint and he gets a pass from counterfeiting charges??" Not trying to give Bernard any ideas but he has nothing to lose at this point.

 

Those Ron Paul Dollars are very popular and have quite a following. :thumb: I wonder if those are being black listed as counterfeits as well. If pass down a Norfed for 100 years then that sucker will be worth the dollars. Just think about the Henning Nickels. You can't even find them and when you do you are gonna pay out the bazooka!

And now it's more effective!!

http://www.coinworld.com/articles/liberty-dollars-ban-goes-into-effect-at-ebay/

 

That's as nice of one as I have seen. All the others I have seen look like bullion rounds not proofs.

 

Yes, but for some reason the Lady Liberty on mine looks manly; like somethings off... not right.

 

You're absolutely right, and the spike hairdoo is missing as well now that you mention it.

 

Correction, I guess mine was proof too, though it had enough handling marks to obliterate the distinction.

 

See how attractive your Lady Liberty is?

 

You know, when I first heard the news that he had been charged with counterfeiting, I thought it was a hoax. But close examination of the coin reveals a wealth (pun intended) of clues that he was deliberately asking for trouble. In particular, the spelled-out denomination of TWENTY DOLLARS is almost exactly the same font used on a genuine twenty dollar bill.

 

If the denominations were never on the coins these would just be considered bullion rounds, and he would be in the clear.

 

Not quite - depends on who he peed off and who he didn't pay off.

 

Yeah, there are a lot of things NORFED could have done differently with these rounds and if so, we could still be getting them on a yearly basis. The AOCS approved rounds that float around today just use the words, i.e. ONE or TWO or FIFTY, etc.. and no mention of dollars. Some do state TWO $MSRP (for example), but that's walking a fine line IMO. They really need to leave "dollars" and the "$" symbol off these rounds.

 

Just denominate them in fractions or whole ounces of silver and leave the rest of the nonsense off. IMHO he went above and beyond what he should have done. But then so did the Secret Service and they continue to do so when they pursue the coins with such veracity.

 

I wonder if he would have been okay had he denominated the coins in "congressmen" since they seem to be bought and sold and freely traded by the special interests. "Hey buddy, got change for a twenty congressmen?" ---

 

"Sin"ators and "con"gressmen are bought and sold like commodities - why not just recognise that simple fact?

 

That is a very good point. The judge could have easily had his/her mind made up before the trial. Good discussion.
There are many “silver rounds” that are almost exact copies of US coins. Morgan, Seated, Standing, Mercury, and many others. Most of these do not say copy on them. Some of them do, in very small letters usually hidden in the design. These rounds could easily be mistaken for real US coins by people (present company excluded). I always thought that since the rounds did not display a denomination, that was what kept them legal. Other rounds have designs that could be seen as anti-government, with sayings such as “Abolish The Federal Reserve” and such. – To my knowledge, the government has not went after any of these.

 

You assume I didn't expect the outcome that occurred. I did because there was never any doubt that the Norfeds are in violation of US Code Title 18 Chapter 25 sec 486, but that doesn't make them counterfeits. Sec 486 makes it illegal to make any coin of gold, silver, or other metal, intended to be used as current money, in the resemblance in design of US or foreign coins, or of original design. Carr gets out of this because he doesn't intend for his to be used as money. Carr violates Sec 489 which makes it illegal to make or possess with the intent to sell or give away any token, disk or device in the likeness or similitude as to design, color, or inscription thereupon of any US or foreign coin. (This statute does not require fraudulent intent, you can tell people exactly what it is and it is still illegal.) I would definitely say Carr's pieces are similar in design to US coins and that he intends to sell them. (Note the law says "in similitude", it does not say they have to be exact. A 1964 Franklin is VERY similar to a 1963 Franklin.) Carr's coins come much closer to being counterfeits than Norfed's because he is trying to make them look identical except for the date. Norfeds look like US coins in only a very superficial way.

Oh and Norfed's coins are also in violation of Sec 491

 

Conder101-
I stand by my original statement ...Like it or not, NotHaus WAS CONVICTED of three Federal felonies for "passing, selling, and possessing Liberty Dollar coins; of issuing and passing Liberty Dollar coins intended for use as current money; and of conspiracy against the United States."

I put "counterfeit" in quotes (many articles didn't) - I don't know if the Feds argued for a specific "counterfeit" charge, as you assert.

Given a plethora of recent and publicly unfamiliar designs coined by the US Mint, I suppose 'resemblance in design' can now be more broadly inferred by SS, the Mint and the courts. For example, if the vast majority of the general public doesn't recognize First Spouse coins etc., any jury will also be confused what legitimate (US Mint PM) coins look like... and likewise see NorFeds as "counterfeit" (vernacular) in that broader sense. btw I don't know if the Feds ever used that word to make their case; I didn't read the transcripts.

To you. I disagree. So were there any numismatists on the jury? They deliberated less than 2 hours after an 8-day trial: that's open & shut, chief.