Guides/Grading World Coins

Hello everyone. A couple questions - what sort of resources does everyone use for coin guides and grading references for world coins?

I'm interested in the coins of a couple different nations and I was thinking the Krause World Coin Catalog would be a good place to start (2012). Is it like the Red Book? Does is show mintages, proofs, and basic grading criteria? Does it have pictures?

Or if there's something else recommended, I'd be open to suggestions.

Thanks!

 

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Yes, Jwt Krause is in fact much better than the Redbook.

 

Pretty accurate assessment of the situation, especially as regards grading. In some ways, grading world coins without established standards has resulted in much more accurate grades than with their US counterparts, especially in the circulated grades. Whereas there are generally accepted grading standards for US coins that key-in on specific features of a coin, most world coin enthusiasts have a much more comprehensive approach to grading. That is, just because the buffalo has a full horn doesn't guarantee a certain grade if the rest of the coin lacks eye appeal. And I for one think that's really how it ought to be. That's not to say some of the markers for strike on US coins are not a good thing, FH quarters and FSB on dimes are an important criteria for those specific issues and unfortunately such information is not something that lends itself to world issues. Never the less, even a novice can quickly recognize what a coin with a weak strike looks like.

Also agree with GDJMSP on Krause coin valuations. But here is the interesting thing about it. Whereas US coin guides generally overstate the value of a coin, it is much more common for a coin in Krause to be valued at the minimum of what it is worth, especially if it is a scarce coin. In true UNC or BU the actual value may be many times what is listed in Krause. Even in a grade like MS62. Have a look, 4 times catalog even when the coin is borderline for the grade:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EGYPT-NGC-MS-62-1920-H-2-TWO-PIASTRE-PIASTRES-SILVER-OCCUPATIONAL-COINAGE-/230891438010

 

I would say check them all before buying or selling...,, There are some coins that will do better on eBay than any other venue on the planet if you are selling. Very doubtful the 2 Piastres I linked to would have done as well anywhere else.

 

Hmmm...tried to post earlier....

Thank you everyone for your insights and advice, it's much appreciated.

 

If you are really serious about 'world' coins (i.e the 95 % of the world which lies outside of the U.S), then you really need to get a countries specialized catalogues:

- Spink - Coins of England and the United Kingdom.
- Gadoury and Le Franc for French coins.
- Catalogues by Jäger, Schön, and AKS for coins of Germany.
- Auction prices realized, as mentioned before.

I am sure that similar catalogues exist for Spanish, Italian, Japanese, etc coins.
In my opinion, Krause is innacurate almost to the point of being useless with regard to valuations, and leaves some to be desired with regards to mintages, and other details,
(at least for the coins that interest me).

With regards to grading, GD explained it well.

I have found that it is good to buy according to Krause prices, but to sell according to the prices listed in the countries catalogues.

 

For Spanish, Cayon and Cayon. For Japanese, its the JNDA catalog for modern, Hartill for ancient. I agree 100% about your point on specialized catalogs Eduard, just adding those two I know off the top of my head.

Also, don't think of these specialized catalogs as "expenses". Heck, I save money because of every book I buy. Just last night I was reading the new "From Funan to the Fifth Reign" book on ancient Thai coins. In there, it goes over how pot duang coins were made, and how modern forgeries cannot make them the same way, so it shows you point blank how to identify forgeries. Information like this will save you TONS of money over the years.

 

A coin is worth whatever it will trade at. If 1938 Egyptian 100 Piastres are routinely trading for over $1,000 on eBay, then that's what they are worth regardless of whether other dealers will only buy them for $475. Or at least that's my take on it. Part of it has to do with the geographic reach of eBay and the ability of bidders in other countries who are willing to participate in the venue. In the case of Egypt, there are many bidders in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and other wealthy oil producing countries in the middle east who trust eBay and will only buy there by-passing the other traditional venues like Heritage. I speak from personal experience on that. If the same type coin sells multiple times at a level significantly higher than past results, then that is the new value of the coin. The real challenge, at least as a seller, is to pick the venue that will reach the most qualified buyers of a particular coin. And eBay, as much as I hate certain aspects about them, is able to do that with certain coins.

 

I hear what you are saying, but also understand what Doug is saying. I have similar coins I buy. Some coins I buy I can get cheapest on Ebay, but others Ebay is the most expensive source for them. Its part of the education on how and where to buy. Just because someone pays $1000 for something on Ebay, (or Littleton or HSN), does not mean they would ever hope to recover that if they sold their collection to a dealer or a traditional auction. Same is true if I buy a coin from a Triton auction, I have to realize part of that money is gone forever, since its extremely common for buyers to overpay in such sales.

Taking all of this in, I simply try to base a "value" on the lowest easily identifiable, worldwide exchange of coins. If these coins are going cheapest on Ebay, or dealer to dealer, or in auctions, whichever has some volume I will use as my personal base price for the item.

I hope that makes sense.

 

If there is something along these lines for Italian would be nice to know about it. From what I have seen, there isn't much in English. Since most of these European catalogs are targeted to local audiences, ie the European Union, and since these countries also tend to have VAT tax on purchases, it's very difficult (at least for me) to make anything but a relative comparison of coin values within a particular country. For instance, even in a catalog written in Italian, one can compare what they think the price differential should be between two different issues or varieties. But for absolute valuation? Forget it. You would be better served going to dealer websites in those same countries with the knowledge that they never buy at the same price that they sell at. The little guy, no matter what catalog he is using, will always be at a disadvantage in the marketplace unless he is buying the very finest material available. To my way of thinking, that is a far more important concept than catalog valuation. Or to put it a different way, WHAT you buy is far more important than how MUCH you pay for it.

 

For modern Italian varieties: A. Pagani. Monete italiane. Milan. 1982.

For earlier: Corpus Nummorum Italicorum. 20 Vols. Rome. 1910-1943.

 

Yeah, CNI is really cheap, as well as easy to find.

Sorry, just had to put a warning that this is not the easiest resource, or cheapest, to find. Usually only extremely dedicated Italian collectors or dealers will have this reference.

Not saying someone who is very serious about these coins should not own it, but be prepared to search and PAY for it.

 

About half of the volumes are available for legal download here: http://www.medievalcoinage.com/pdfbooks/pdfbooks.htm

 

But it would appear to be 30 years old.

 

Sorry, that's still modern to me. :yes:

 

In every respect except price information. Having valuations in 1982 Italian Lire isn't much help.

 

Definitely not. But the relative prices are still useful. If a coin is listed at 200,000 Lire in 1982, when the others were at 200, that shows something.