Personally, I would like to see NCLT's and bullion coinage, as well as token coinage (notgeld and war/depression time issues) in their own catalogues. What do you think? Please chime in!
Yeah, I have that issue. That's not really what I'm going after though. I'm just trying to toss in some discussion, but it seems a lot of peeps on here lately are in a position to only post their coins and not really discuss the current issues. My topic relates to the proper cataloging of coins. Should NCLT's and bullion coinage really be in the same catalogue with coinage that was meant to be circulated or should there be separate catalogues issued. They don't have to be printed issues, maybe just digital ones that can be made on the cheap, but provide more precise identification. Thanks for replying though.
What about this one then? http://www.krausebooks.com/collecting-world-coins-13th-ed Seems to be about "circulating world coins"; I don't have it though. In fact, such a catalog would not be very useful for me. Yes, I often complain about NCLT made for collectors only, and tend to not collect such pieces any more. (Such principles are flexible of course. ) My problem is that there is no strict dividing line. Here in the euro area, for example, we have so-called "collector coins" which, unlike the circulation coins and commemorative €2 coins, are legal tender in the issuing member state only. Even those that are issued at face do not actually circulate anywhere. So should they be in a separate catalog? What I think would be helpful, however, is some information in a coin catalog about whether a coin was issued at face, or surcharged only. With older coins that info may be difficult to find, but that should not keep catalog editors from trying. Then let all coins from some period of time (say, 20th century) be in one catalog, but with "F" and "S" notes ... Christian
I agree with you JB. I think there's a notable difference between coins that circulate and those that don't. It's frustrating looking through Krause trying to find something among the countries that just mass produce special collector coins. I'm trying to collect Australian and New Zealand coins right now and I'd like to easily see what I need and what was just made for collectors.
Krause could create a separate catalog for silver coins issued since 1970 and gold coins issued since 1933. That way, the editors would not have to decide on whether a coin is "legitimate" or "NCLT".
It's a shame it needs to be done but it does. Some NCLT is very much like real coinage but the catalog has gotten completely out of control. It should be 1900 to date. Of course if they don't fix the problems with the catalog it might be a mute point since it's gotten so bad.
I don't see what the problem would be to produce a separate catalog for commemorative issues (I refuse to use the "NCLT" abbreviation; if it's legal tender, it's a coin, period, the fact it wasn't intended to circulate is neither here not there). I never figured out why some people turn up their nose at commemoratives; sure collect what you like, don't collect what you don't, but I never understood the attitude that there's something wrong with something made for collectors. Somebody produces something I like, I'll buy it. I don't care whether it was made to circulate, or just made to satisfy the desires of a collector like me (hey, I am a collector like me lol...).
How about five books to satisfy almost everyone: This is just off the top of my head. So let's break it down, shall we? Circulating Coinage: Coins issued by the official governing body, released at face value, and intended to be used in trade for goods and services. To include commemorative coins as described above. Non-Circulating Legal Tender Coinage: As the name describes, but without the intended use for actual trade of goods and services; issued by the official governing body, released with a premium surcharge, and struck in such a way or made of precious metal that places the coin at a higher monetary value than that which the coin's own denomination is inscribed. Subsidiary Token Coinage: Coins produced by an unofficial temporary governing body, a lesser governing body or by a private institution and intended to be used in place or along side official circulating coinage during times of war, hardship, inflation or scarcity of official coinage. Tokens and Medallic Coinage: Token - Objects similar in appearance to coins, but have no official denominational value or redeemable value and are intended only to be used in direct trade for specific goods and services. Medals - Objects similar in appearance to coins, but are intended to reward, officiate, commemorate or celebrate an action or event by an individual(s), institution or governing body and has no monetary value for which it can be traded in for goods and services. Pattern, Specimen and Fantasy Coinage:
Keep in mind that this is the "World" forum (which in the CT terminology translates to "World minus US"), and many collectors of such coins would like to know whether a particular coin is something that is actually used in the issuing country or not. As I mentioned, there is a wide "gray" area, so such a differentiation will be difficult. Similarly, the idea of having a catalog for silver coins issued since 1970 may work for the US but would have to be modified elsewhere. Here in Germany for example we had a "gradual" exit, with silver circulation coins until 1975. But silver collector coins were issued at face until 2011, and at least theoretically you could have used them for buying bread or a newspaper ... Christian
Er that definition would include basically every commemorative and bullion issue ever made. We already have terms for such things. Why do we need another? "NCLT" is high up on the list (just below "medal-coin") of terminology I think the numismatic world can easily do without, and should. If it's commemorative, call it that. If it's bullion, call it that. Why create additional terms that already existing terms already suffice to describe? As for me, if I like a coin, I'll collect it. I don't care whether it was intended to circulate or not. I have no problem making the distinction for sake of educating myself and others about what I own, but it doesn't affect my collecting habits in the slightest.
I'm not debating whether a coin should be called this or that or how we feel about labels, let's save that for another post. Now back to that matter at hand. The purpose of this post is to point out the deficiencies in the current system of cataloging, such as: page after page of commemoratives, bullion coinage, and so on that take up space in the current catalogs leaving very little space for proper identification and relative information on all the coins in general. Again, I'm not trying to divide up coins because I favor one over the other nor am I critiquing who collects what. I am simply putting forth the idea that if separate catalogues were produced for specific types of coins and their relatives, that more information could be provided on all types of issues and we collectively would benefit. Also, that these catalogues be issued by one entity/publisher or collectively by several working in conjunction with each other to prevent contradictory information.
It's hard to tell "officially" what was produced for circulation and what was intended for collectors since both are official government issues, but if well known publisher(s) or numismatic association(s) could unofficially designate and somewhat agree between the two we'd have a better separation line. All we have now is what we individually accept, which is not a bad thing so to speak, but it leads to having catalogues that become muddled with too many variant types (ie: circulating, patterns, bullion, tokens, collector issues, etc.) and massive catalogues that are not comprehensive.
True to some extant, but not exactly. Some commemoratives were/are intended for general use as political tools to communicate an idea or to promote national collectivity/identity, for example: the Soviet 1967 series. Yet others are produced simply to be intended for collectors, for example 90% of Liberia's coinage. Most Liberian's have no idea that these coins exist or another example would be the Somali guitar series.
For me what makes it an issue is one of the ways I like to try to collect is trying to get all the coins from a given nation (exceptions for ultra-rare coins), but it is cost prohibitive when there is such a huge number of coins out there, so you need to be able to draw the line somewhere. A good place to draw the line is circulating issues/collector issues. Especially in the last 10-15 years it seems like collector issues are just exploding to the extent that it's hard for one person to get everything. Look at things like the U.S. state quarters and national park quarters, the Canadian millennium and Olympic quarters, Britain's new Olympic 50 pence issues, etc. And those are circulating coins, not to mention the uncirculating coins. I was trying to get a proof version of all the post-1964 U.S. coins. There have been more quarters in the last 10 years than the previous 40.
Since Krause has its database divided up with NCLTs sharing a volume with fantasies, but most bullion and commems in with the circulating coins by century, they certainly aren't going to suddenly rearrange things to satisfy members of any forum (or other group), and no one else is going to make the huge investment of creating a new database without infringing on the Krause copyrights, isn't this whole discussion purely academic, with no practical purpose? (Kind of like the arguments about whether the US should stop producing 1 and 5-cent coins or dollar bills.)
I have this book and I recommend it. It is just like the Krause catalog but removes all the NCLT junk. Countries like Palau, Niue, & the Marshall Islands aren't in the book at all, and countries like Liberia, North Korea, and others are greatly reduced. It still includes 'circulating commemoratives' which swell some of the countries like Thailand, UK, Canada, and the USA, but we'll just have to live with that. It seems silly to me to have the 2000-present Krause be as large as the 1900-2000. If you're interested in a full krause I'd recommend a used one from the early 00s that has the 1900s included as well. I don't think the last few years of new issues is worth paying for a separate book. You can find the newer coins easy enough on the internet. I also like Numista.com. They have a checkbox to remove NCLT from search results which helps.
