Think I am gonna go and collect NGC * coins now.

Amen. Was worried I was the only one that so lol...

Heck I'd even buy a coin in an SGS holder if I liked the coin (and was being sold at a price in accordance with its real grade and value). I'll concede the TPGs aren't entirely worthless, but they're not worth nearly as much as the general public seems to think they are.

As to the OP, buy the COINS you like, regardless of whose slab they're in. PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, etc. aren't the ones who make the coins as good as they are lol...

 

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Your saying a trusted dealer cannot sell you a potentially cleaned overgraded raw coin?

 

No, I was saying just because its in plastic from a certain TPG versus a different TPG, does not mean its NOT cleaned, overgraded, etc. The collector has the duty to look at the coin him/her self and grade it. No TPG in existence ONLY has perfect coins in their slabs. But, some people act that way, and if its in a certain TPG slab do not bother to study the coin themselves.

I didn't say one word about dealers in my entire post sir. I have no idea where that even came from. This has nothing to do, good or bad, with dealers.

 

amen!

 

I would have expected you to go the opposite of the authority being the rebel you are.

 

Im just saying that if TPGs did not exist grading standards would be wildly inconsistent and dealers would then capitalize on it.

 

Perhpas TPG's are a necessary evil that inadvertently protect inexperienced collectors and even those who are not quite experts.

 

I just don't know how we EVER survived without them. In fact, they still aren't in ancients and I just do not know HOW we are able to not just cut each other at every opportunity.

You educate yourself sir. With or without TPG, an uneducated collector is a sheep waiting to be fleeced.

 

Yes Chris. But what about those who are new and learning, do they not purchase coins for a couple of years or just learn through fleecing when a more compassionate (not perfect) way seems to be in place.

 

So you assume im uneducated and point out that the ancient community does not have a TPG but last i checked this was posted in the US coins section of the forum. It seems maybe you still have somethings to learn as well. You have some valid points about being able to judge for yourself and to not leave it up to others but to assume every collector can devote themselves to becoming an expert is unrealistic. TPGs serve a much needed service for collectors whether it be for novice or expert. You and I are not as far off in opinion as you think, i dont agree with every grade PCGS or NGC gives is accurate but im also not gonna ignore the fact that they bring higher prices at auction or general sale then raw counterparts.

 

Wow this thread has took off! Let me throw this in the mix: Is not a collector a collector? I agree collect the coin for the coin, regardless who slabbed it. But for some, they collect the slab too. Is that really wrong?

 

I believe they are.......:scratch:

 

I think it is difficult for experienced collectors to put themselves in the shoes of a newbie. And it is almost impossible for them to remember how complex and intimidating this hobby is to novice collectors. It is my personal opinion that the TPG's level the playing field for the novices and helps prevent them from being fleeced quickly. However, I recognize Chris' concern that the TPGs become a crutch that can become a substitute for learning and knowledge. Without the TPGs, uneducated collectors will get fleeced quickly. With the TPGs, uneducated collectors will still get fleeced, it will just take longer.

Having said that, I certainly don't consider the TPGs a necessary evil. The benefits provided by TPG authentication and grading far outweigh any evils that they create IMO. To Doug's point "that the only thing that matters is the coin": this is true during the buying process. There is nothing wrong with buying an MS64 in a second tier holder if you can pay MS63 money and you believe the coin warrants a grade of MS63. However, ignoring the liquidity aspect that will arise during the sale process can be problematic if repeated too often. I promise that it is much easier to sell an MS63 in a PCGS MS63 holder than it is to sell an MS63 in an ICG MS64 holder. With respect to liquidity, the plastic the coin resides in is certainly relevant, and IMO should be considered when purchasing a coin.

 

I collect coins, not slabs.

 

Grading coins is too subjective.My 64 might be your 63.
of course there is a price difference. Who arbitrates that difference. Slabbed coins eliminates that.
JMHO.

 

Doug, that one is obvious. As I said in an earlier post, I have often bought coins in other TPG slabs if they were nicer, and I have cracked them out, and submitted to PCGS or NGC for financial credibility. I never said that the only nice coins are in the top two TPG services--it is just that there is a strong market for NGC and PCGS coins, supported by their reputation (I feel, well deserved). Any savvy collector would hopefully buy the coin that is the best, Doug, and either keep it where it is, or resubmit, depending on what the person's intentions are regarding the coin. I have bought raw coins over slabbed ones over the course of my 40 year sojourn as a coin collector. Have I had both upgrades and downgrades? Generally, upgrades, as the non PCGS/NGC coins were as you said--vasty superior, and victims of hopeless misgrading that I often see in SEGS, IGC, and even ANACS slabs However, they were superior, because I cherry picked them, not due to superior quality that is normally in second and third tier TPG plastic. .I DO NOT see that same inconsistency that you do in the "big two--" sorry, if I didn't feel that way, I would not say it. All I was intending with this thread was that I have oft times chosen to collect PCGS coins, as with both reputation and MY VISUAL INSPECTION, they oft time have the nicest coins. That isn't aways true, and the intent of this thread wasn't a debate on TPG credibility or lack thereof, or the ability to cherrypick a nice coin from anywhere--it was that I really LIKE NGC star coins, and have neglected them too much. I think that a toned NGC star coin can be a true work of art and beauty, and as such, I have decided to get as many of them as I can afford, and like visually.

 

Sorry if you think we have been too harsh on you. Your premise is sound, you like certain coins and wish to buy more. Great, I always love it when someone buys coins they like. My only question would be:

If you are just now getting around to looking at NGC * coins, and found some you like, maybe there are SEGS, ANACS, or heaven forbid, unslabbed coins, you may like as well.

You might want to start looking at them a lot harder too. I hope you do, and find and buy 100 more coins you love sir.