How much is an ELIASBERG pedigree supposed to be worth?

Definitely agree with you Collect. ONe of the best weapons this hobby has is known pieces before a major counterfeiting outbreak begins. I know I have sought out certain coins because they were in old collections. I did this because 1, I knew the coin would be "real", (either authentic or contemporary counterfeit, not the modern ones), and 2, to give me something in my hand to compare versus other examples.

While I do not overpay dramatically for a provenance, and I also see how TPG can overgrade coins from certain collections, I do believe this thread IS downplaying the value of having a provenance on a coin. As chinese fakes get better as they are bound to do, i believe US collectors will be forced to appreciate this more and more.

 

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You also may get the opinion of the previous collector. You can assume that the previous collector thought the coin was genuine & they may have even provided a grade opinion. Assuming you respect the opinion of the previous collector, that opinion should be worth something.

 

But the previous collector doesn't get to assign the grade, the TPG does. In any case, agree with the general observation that pedigreed coins in slabs do indeed tend to be more often overgraded than other slabbed coins taken as a whole. And in the case of certain pedigrees (Eliasberg in particular) the overgrading is often times in increments of multiple grades.

 

This one looks to be graded accurately, how about that.

 

Pedigree must have mattered to whoever bought Gerhard Richter's Abstraktes Bild; it was owned by Eric Clapton and recently sold for £21.3 million ($34.2 million) - a record price for a living artist.

Pedigree matters alot to new money, the serious buyers. Celebrity pedigree (rather that scholarly pedigree) is what counts mo$t, now.

So who are the most famous collectors alive? Should Justin Bieber start 'coin-investing'?

 

Good question. I saw earlier today that Charlie Sheen has paid-off the $100,000.00 debt which Lindsay Lohan had with the IRS. They would make a marvelous couple don't you think? Let's suppose they get hitched, start assembling a collection together, and then after many years stuck in probate the coins finally come on the market in pedigreed holders...,, I mean who could resist adding such a coin to their collection?

 

I was just making general statements regarding “provenance” and not referring specifically to coins encased in plastic (like the one I posted for fun). :b8nce:

Documented provenance can help establish that a coin is (1) genuine, (2) has not been altered, and (3) that it comes with good title. A provenance could highlight the importance, care, attention, and grade that the previous owner accorded it.

IMO a detailed and interesting provenance could significantly enhance a coin’s liquidity and market value. Likewise, negative details could lower the liquidity & value.

 

I see what you're saying then. Problem is, especially with slabbed coins, most of that provenance information is lost or destroyed. Case in point, I own the Pittman 1905 Danish West Indies 4 Daler --NGC MS65 and pedigreed. And according to Northeast Numismatic, the coin was purchased by Pittman for $43 from Hans Schulman back in 1961. I had asked them about the provenance thinking it might have been an eX-Farouk coin which would have made for a great story. And maybe it was, Schulman attended the sale in 1954 along with his buddy Pittman. But the chances of that story being passed on beyond me to the next collector is limited, especially if the coin were consigned to a large auction house at some later date. In all likihood, they would consider the additional information beyond what is on the slab as superfluous .

 

That is true. A coin with a King Farouk pedigree should be examined carefully because many pieces from his collection have a reputation for having been hashly, even abrasively, cleaned.

 

I should nearly pee my pants and faint to own a Beiber coin.

 

You laugh, but if he became a "famous collector" it would probably also move (budge) the market. LOL

Srsly

That Richter is NOT worth $13 mln extra (over the last sale) - Clapton's ownership ADDED $13 mln. Is there any coin whose pedigree added $13 mln (in real or equivalent terms)?

And do you suppose Russo-armenian oligarch Vladimir Avetissian bought the painting?

 

There was a long story in CoinAGE magazine this month about the relative value of coins versus artwork. The article focused on the St. Guadens pattern for the double-eagle with the indian in head-dress obverse (later used on the St. Guadens $10 eagle). There is only one of them, and it's in private hands, hasn't traded in many years...,, They speculated that it was worth at least 15 million and then went on to say that even at that price it would be grossly undervalued given the advances in price of other artwork. But the author failed to acknowledge one important thing, however, --and it's something any girl in Cosmopolitan Magazine could have told him-- contrary to what everyone else says, size really does matter.