Lincoln opinion??

I bought this 1957-D sometime ago and was just wondering what some of you wheat fans think of it, what would it grade if at all? I dont know alot about wheat pennies and how they are graded so any help would be appreciated?

 

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If they would grade it, I think it would go 66 or maybe 65 depending on the luster. However, I would guess it would get the dreaded genuine artificially colored.

 

I agree it looks AT to me.

 

Maybe it would get bagged for color, but such is the nature of the beast.

 

It doesn't look so artificially colored to me. But it's copper and I don't no squat about it. DEX

 

Looks market acceptable to me, but it probably wouldn't slab. It's rare to find a TPG that will let a coin like that reside in one of it's holders.

 

Er PCGS, NGC, and ANACS will all give details grades on problem coins, included artificially toned ones, so don't know what you're all thinking when you say TPGs won't slab them. Think your information is out of date. Heck there's another thread on the front page that shows an NGC slab that notes "artificial toning." You can tell the TPG to just not slab it if it's a problem coin, but all 3 will slab it and note the problem if you ask them to. (NGC was the first to do this I think; eventually ANACS and even PCGS adopted this policy too. The only thing they refuse to slab are coins they don't believe to be authentic.)

And this may or may not be artificially toned anyway. (Never figured out how one determines that as the same chemical processes can happen naturally as would cause a coin to tone artificially.)

Can't honestly say whether the toning is artificial or not (natural toning can sometimes look this way, depends how it was stored and in what chemical environment); my guess is this coin would either come back MS 66, or UNC Details - Artificial Toning.

If it's artificially toned and you intend on selling it you'd almost be better off not slabbing it; it would be easier to sell raw in that case. There are plenty of people who would want it anyway.

 

A coin is not officially "slabbed" when it ends up in a details holder. It's nothing more than a fancy bodybag.

 

Troodon, as Thad said, people saying it'd be bodybagged or wouldn't slab just mean that it'd be in a details holder. Everybody knows that nowadays they do put these in slabs, just not clean ones.

I would agree with this except that a details holder will still signify that the TPG believes it to be a genuine coin. So it is a step up from just being bagged.

 

You see this date toned quite often -- from the mint sets.

However, the coin posted by the OP coin doesn't exhibit the same type of toning I would expect from those sets.

I'm not sure I would go so far as to call it AT, but I'm not sure I would label it MA either.

 

You get a lot of dirt on details slabs? I've seen them they look pretty clean to me. (Yeah I know what you really meant.) What's so bad about a details slab? Some company told you what they thought about the coin, that's what you were paying them to do right? Doesn't make the coin any different. Some people would want a coin toned that way anyway, artificial or not. Some wouldn't want a toned coin period, natural or not. A hunk of plastic with someone's opinion on it doesn't change the coin in any way; it's still the same coin, no more or less desirable or valuable than it was outside of the plastic.

If it's in a hunk of plastic with some company's opinion on it, it's not "bodybagged." If there was anything wrong with the coin it was wrong before someone said so. If it was desirable before it's no less so because one of your deified TPGs said it wasn't. It's just an opinion. And the only people's opinions on a given coin that matter are the owner's, and if you sell it, the buyer's. People put way too much stock in what the TPGs say these days because they have no confidence in their own eyes.

 

I wouldn't disagree. I've sought out problem coins in detail slabs for coins in prices ranges I can't afford before.

I sense some animosity towards TPGs, which a lot of people have. But the fact is, many people buy the slab and not the coin. Third Party Grading is big business and the opinions of the buyers and sellers often tend to mirror the opinions of the TPG, whether we like it or not. It's a lot easier than learning to grade coins.

 

actually, not.

They are still saying that it is genuine.

 

Glad you sensed the animosity, sometimes I worry I'm being too subtle about it lol... Many people eat at McDonalds, but that doesn't make them a gourmet restaurant. Popularity does not prove quality. I can concede that many and probably most rely on TPGs' opinions when buying and selling coins, but that doesn't mean they should. However I love it when TPGs undergrade coins or declare them problems. I get a lot of bargains for my collection that way. My favorite so far was an AU trade dollar that NGC gave a details grade to because of chopmarks on the reverse. Easily knocked $100 off the price, and it's still a great coin IMO (and as far as I'm concerned, the chopmarks added to the historic interest of the coin, rather than detract from its appearance. Proves it was actually used instead of just sitting in a box for the last 134 years).

Hey learning to grade coins is harder than someone else doing it for you. But the effort can be well worth it, especially when you find nice coins that TPGs undergrade or "bodybag" in the interest of so-called "high standards."

Back to the original subject at hand, I think that cent's toning is probably natural. But if TPGs think it's artificial and you still like it, who cares? It's still just as good of a coin. Only reason AT/NT even matters is if you sell it, and even then some would want it anyway even if it is artificial. I think the toning on this looks nice, and I usually HATE toning most of the time.

 

I think alot of people get upset when the grade on the slab does not match the technical grade of the coin, a coin can have everything it needs to be a MS65 but still receive a MS64. The reason being that although TPGs would like you to think they are grading coins they are not, they are putting a suggested value on the coin. Truth be told you could line up 10 MS65s and 10 MS64s and no one would be able to grade them accurately every time. They follow market trends and feedback to come up with standards of how coins are valued and i think it has been for the better of the hobby. For example before TPGs I could search for many years for what would be considered a top pop by todays TPG standards but without pop reports and suggested values of coins in similar grades It would be no less valuable then a eye appealing uncirculated coin. Thus meaning all the hard work of finding the best of the best to represent my collection would not pay off when it came time to have to part ways with it, TPGs just help get that recognition and the most value for our beloved collections...

 

Um if graders are trying to assign a value to a coin rather than a grade, they're not doing what they're being paid to do. It's the duty of the market to determine the values; the TPGs are just supposed to be assigning technical grades to the coins and that's it, period. I highly disagree that TPGs trying to set the market prices for coins is good for the hobby at all. In fact, them trying to assign values instead of grades is one of my biggest gripes with them in the first place. The main reason I attempt to defend ANACS is they still seem to be doing what they're supposed to be doing, just giving a technical opinion on the grade, and ignoring any trends as to how marketable the coin is. The coin can speak for itself. (Personally I think the grade can speak for itself too, but if you're going to be paying someone to give a GRADING opinion, that's what they should be doing, or they're basically committing fraud by not providing the service for which they are being paid.)

TPGs are GRADERS by definition. They are not being paid to market the submitters' coins. They're not being paid to appraise the submitters' coins. They are being paid to grade them, period, and if they're basing their grading opinion on anything other than technical standards, they're effectively defrauding their customers.

 

Troodon, The TPGs do NOT technical grade. They market grade -- in other words, they rank or price coins as they think the market will view them. You can call that defrauding their customers if you wish, but that doesn't change the reality of how TPGs grade coins...and ANACS is no different than PCGS/NGC in this regard. Now you may not like it, you may disagree with it, but that doesn't change what the TPGs do.

Now, let me ask you a very pointed question.... How many of your bodybagged coins coins have you sold, and how did you make out in those sales?

Because, and please pardon my bluntness, it sounds to me like you don't really understand how the coin game works, particularly on the sell side...or perhaps you simply don't care.

Respectfully...Mike

 

I fully understand what the TPGs actually do; I just disagree that they should be doing it. A company that claims they sell a grading service should be doing precisely that, no more, no less. As for how many "bodybagged" coins have I sold? 0. None of the coins I've ever submitted (to date, 1; soon will be submitting 10 more) have been bodybagged, and haven't sold any that I've graded. I fully understand how the coin game works as per TPGs; I just simply don't agree that it should work that way. But ultimately that's just my own opinion and I can't convince anyone determined not to be convinced, so guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I almost never sell my coins anyway so ultimately the only opinion that matters about a coin I own (or want to own) is my own.

I fully believe that it's the responsibility of willing buyers and willing sellers to determine the value of a given coin; not the TPGs; as a allegedly disinterested third party they should only be giving opinions on the authenticity and technical grade of the coin. Yes, I know that's not the way it really works, but I firmly believe that's the way it should work. The fact that it doesn't work that way is a large part of why I have little respect for TPGs.

(In the interest of full disclosure, the few coins I've ever sold were almost entirely raw coins that usually went for about their silver value. Generally these were what I considered "surplus," and almost all of the proceeds went back into buying more coins. I buy my coins because I like to collect them and don't care what they are worth except in the sense I want to get good value for my money when I BUY them. What they could potentially sell for is the problem of whoever inherits them after I die lol...)

OK I promise to try to restrain myself from ranting about TPGs for a little while at least lol... I believe I made my position clear.

 

Your Lincoln cent is genuine. If submitted for grading it will likely come back in a details-holder for questionable color. As such it will be worth half as much as one graded without problems (a very rough approximation but you get the idea).

If you like it that's all that matters. You asked for opinions and got them.
Lance.

 

And i greatly appreciate yours and others opinions, which is why i asked, i don't typically pick up toned Lincoln cents so i do not have a concrete understanding of the common toning colors or patterns. I more or less came across this particular coin so it does not bother me if its not worth anything thought it was cool so i asked.