WoW. 1857 Flying Eagle. Possible proof? Grade?

There were only 3 pairs of dies used for proof coins in 1857.

For PR3: can you post a closeup for the N and T in UNITED for me? The N has a diagonal die file mark above it and the T has a little spur on the inside of the right part of the T.

For PR2, there are die lines in denticles above CA. And 'numerous crisscrowwing die lines in the field near the rim at 6:00 to 9:00.'

PR1: "die file mark from the left serif of the top of the I in UNITED to the rim ... a die scratch that slants down just below the beak diagonally to the right."

from The Flying Eagle & Indian Cent Attribution Guide 2nd edition vol 1 1856-1858. Richard E Snow.

I can post the die characteristics of the reverse - but please see what you can see of these characteristics of the obverse first ...

 

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Yeah, that'd be a coin I need to see in hand to be totally sure... But I don't like the color.

 

It's a pretty coin but in my opinion it has had a lot of work done to it.
It had a spot removed from above the date and probably below STATES.
The color is not natural for an FE.

 

It is authentic, and I think the toning is real. Definitely a business strike, and I'd say a 65. There are plenty of copper coins that tone that way. I see no evidence of polishing. Let NGC make the final call, but I am sticking with authentic business strike NT, MS 65.

 

Thanks for all the feedback folks. It's been educational.

I will swing by the local shop on Monday. Assuming their opinion is the same as the general consensus here, I will gladly return it.

-greg

 

Here's an Indian Cent with similar toning, so I don't buy the AT argument:

 

Well Mdude, I will say the colors wouldn't make me as nervous if they were on an Indian Cent. But trying to find colorful FE's, that look like this, is another story.

Really though, the color is the last thing that concerns me. I'll take an AT if everything else is on the up and up.

 

I think the only way to be sure is to slab it and see if it comes back details. If so, then you will know for sure. To me there is no way it looks polished--I picked the Indian Cent as the look, surface details and overall condition are quite similar.

 

Trust me, I hope you are right lol.

 

Here's a 64 slabbed that just sold in an auction:

 

This one does give me some hope.
MS 64 Prooflike
This is the closest i could find with polished surface look and surfaces. Including pitting.

 

I have read the comments and I must say this.....The only red flag I see here is questionable color. NOT a fake coin, no way! In fact I see a VERY boldly struck Flying Eagle cent! I see zero rub on this coin and if I could see this sucker in hand I could give you a better answer. It's sooooo hard to judge or grade a coin from an image. If I were you I would take this coin to a B&M that is respectable and let them look at it. The strike on the coin "from the images" looks amazing.

 

Here's another one, very polished look. MS63 From HA again.

 

No reverse photo, but surface and color very similar. This is a PR 65 that just sold at auction (on the left, for folks who may just be joining the discussion. Greg's coin is on the right):



Yours is darker and has a bit more rainbow, but I see definite similarities.

 

Great coin!

 

Well FEs are my favorite coin and probably the one I know the most about. I really do not think this coin is a fake it might be AT but the coin itself i have no doubt about. just the fact the the obverse is slightly off-center makes me think even less that it's a fake. I have also seen similar toning on the early IHs using the same nickel copper planchettes which i know was natural so I wouldn't even bet on it being AT. At this point the only real way to be sure is to send it for grading and i think you will find it comes back in the ms63-64 range. Either way (at or nt) it is a great coin i would love to own myself

 

Greg, ultimately it's your decision. But, I stand by my first gut feelings. IFthe coin is authentic, it is certainly not original (and not a proof). If it were me, and for the $400 you slapped down for this coin, I would send it back as fast as I could get to the post office.

@ Morgandude -- It's not just the colors, but also the way the colors are distributed on the coin that make it completely clear that the coin is not original. It's actually probably one of the worst toning jobs I've seen -- the fact that it's "pretty" doesn't make it more collectible, at least not in my philosophy. While attractive, unless down the road you wanted to offload this on another unsuspecting person, you would be buried in the coin. Serious collectors simply don't want altered coins IMO.

Go with your gut Greg, and if a 2nd in person or even 3rd in person opinion helps you feel better, by all means. Like I said, it's ultimately your money and your decision.

Kind regards,
-Brandon

 

The designs are completely different.

 

I'd say not a proof, polished or burnished and some artificial color. I am NOT seeing cartwheel or anything that looks like natural luster in the images.

Say what? If the planchet has pits in it and it is struck and traces of the pits remain they would still be pits IN the coin, incuse.