So I happened upon this $10 FRN star on theBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/F924-10-00-STAR-NOTE-ONLY-2-KNOWN-XF-GEM-WL57-/190665395252. The seller is asking $8,500 for a note he says is XF+. I was sure there weren't any in a condition over VF 20 for this series, so I figured it must be a new note and checked it out in Track & Price. Turns out there aren't any known notes in higher grade for this FR. Notes are hard to judge from online photos. This note was in a PMG 15 holder before it landed in the PCGS 20 holder you see below. Check out the clean-up job for yourselves.
Here's another doctored note. I must admit, it looks like whoever did this knew what they were doing.
Are they still considered doctored if they have been professionally cleaned?That $8500 price is a out if control absurd asking price.
Yes, I've seen a few that came up in auction as uncertified high grade notes that were certified lower grade notes. Track and Price is a must if people are buying uncertified notes
They were probably cleaned by a professional, or someone with knowledge of paper restoration - washing and ironing will not get you these results. I think dry cleaning pads, japanese hinging tissue paper, steam and a large press were likely used. If the above stains were rust and not dirt, then those cleaning pads wouldn't work. I'm not sure what can get rust stains out like that.
Help me here the back of the PCGS note looks dirty but the ink a better color so I have trouble understanding what was cleaned.
Those are the before and after photos. All four photos in the first post are of the same note. The first and third photos are of the note in the holder graded VF 20. Then second and third photos are of the note cut out, cleaned and being sold as XF.
I guess I got confused when the PMG 15 holder was mentioned then the PCGS 20. Personally the ink looks very discolored on the cleaned bill and I still see the stain lines on the back albeit muc lighter. What do you think would happen if this note was graded again? Would they detect the cleaning?
Contrary to the title of the thread, aren't you really pointing out that even buying TPG notes isn't safe? Rob
There may also be some photoshopping. I can see the color changing if they used cleaning methods, but how do some of the wrinkles just disappear? My guess is the photos are also doctored (along with cleaning of the notes).
In reading the first post it does seem like the title is contradicted when funkee writes the note was moved from a PMG 15 to PCGS 20 holder. I think funkee was just giving some background history on that note which is now unholdered and being described as XF. Moving notes to another holder with a higher grade on label would also require faking the serial number on the label.
TPG opinions vary. The difference between a 15 and a 20 is often subjective. As Endeavor pointed out, it was just background - in that the note was graded 15 and 20 in the past, and now it's XF. The folds can be made less prominent. They cannot be completely removed because the actual fibers are damaged.
The nice thing about a graded note is they will usually catch something that is not apparent looking at pictures or at a glance, or they can perhaps reinforce an opinion on a note you are unsure of. I've seen notes from all three of the common grading companies that I thought were overgraded, undergraded, and perfectly graded. I've seen a ridiculous overgrade on a 239*, and undergraded educationals especially on the low end. And no, it's not just CGA.
Thanks for the clarification. I guess I missed the point that it was in its "third" condition now as a "raw". Rob
