Ukranian coins?

Kind of building on what Christian said, people who immigrate tend to be the ones who are most discontent with the place they are leaving, thus they have the most to complain about. Those who are content stay where they are.

This is from the Wikipedia article on Ukraine:

That doesn't sound like a mutually beneficial relationship to me.

 

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In 1932-1933 from hunger suffered all of people of European territories of the USSR. Not only in Ukraine. Simply, in Russia about it speak less, than in Ukraine. And don't forget that Stalin was from Georgia, not from Russia. And the majority of Stalin executioners were Georgians. If Ukrainians have claims, from they should show them to Georgians.

 

And if Hitler was Austrian, Austria is to blame for all the Nazis crimes? LOL... Poor Germany! Nice logic there, Siberian Man.

While ethnically very close, but definitely not the same, the 2 nations always had certain hostility and claims against each other... For example, some Ukrainians call the years of Soviet reign "occupation", others consider it blessed days of political and economical stability. In certain parts of Ukraine the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Ukrainian) is considered the real defender of Ukraine, not the Soviet Red Army.

There are plenty of claims from both sides, most of them are quite valid.

 

Why not? Austria was the part of the Third Reich. Austrian SS-men murdered Jews not less, than German SS-men. Ask prisoners of concentration camps: whether had for them value - the Austrian or German SS-man injected gas in their crematorium?

 

True, we don't consider American's different than one another even though different states are completely different and people may have reservations about each other. I am in the Northeast and I have reservations about those in the South but I would not consider them as people that are completely different. Even within those Southern states people differ. People in Austin, Texas or Atlanta, GA are different than those in rural Alabama. These coins I found though were found relatively near a Russian area of my city so that area does have many Russians living there and I don't think people really differentiate them from Ukrainians that live in the area is well.

 

It's very very very right opinion, Sir.

 

Jews were killed pretty much everywhere, especially in Poland, Hungary, Romania, USSR, Czechoslovakia, Latvia, France. Many of the executioners were local militias/divisions without even 1 German, this is not the best example. I was merely commenting on your remark that Georgia is to blame for USSR crimes, because Stalin was from there. I find this statement ridiculous and gave Austria as example for Hitlers origin. Rewriting history is not a good idea in general.

Its the tension created by politicians that often makes it look like there is certain animosity between the countries. Ukrainian and Russian people always considered themselves brothers as they belong to same Slavic ethnic group.

 

I agree with you that example with Austria wasn't the best. 'cos Austria was not Hitler's victim but the diligent performer of Hitler's policy. As for Hungary - it's not the best example too, 'cos it was the Nazi satellite. Anti-Semitism was a state policy of Hungary. Romania was the Nazi satellite too (until the end of August 1944). Republic of Slovakia was the Hitler's ally too. And nobody removes from them responsibility for crimes against Jews.
In these countries the Resistance movement operated, it's true. But it was rather weak movement.

As for Stalin. He was Georgian. His main executor Laurence Beria (the chief of NKVD) was the Georgian too. And many of other main executors was from Georgia. Yes, it's true that they lived in Russia and made their crimes from Moscow. But don't you think that it wasn't a Russian guilty?
If to follow your logic, Sir, the people grasped by Hitler, are guilty of his crimes, because crimes were made in the territory of their countries

 

Stalin, Beria and a lot of other people were a part of a huge apparatus, where various people were often responsible for their own plans and actions, without any consent of their superiors. There were quite large groups of people from Ukraine and Belarus, without doubt they did much more damage than Stalin and his Georgian gang. Just look at the heads of MGB. Many paid assassins were brought specially from Latvia. It means nothing, as they all operated as a part of the RUSSIAN Soviet Communist party.

No, this is not my logic at all. And I begin to doubt you utilize any logic yourself.

 

You are misled by insufficient knowledge of historic facts about Russian history. You said: "RUSSIAN Soviet Communist Party". It's a big mistake.
This party was made in 1918 and annuled in 1925. Since that time in Soviet Union was the "All-Russia Communist Party of Bolsheviks". It wasn't Russian communist party. It was the communist party of the whole USSR. Try to understand a difference. The party was formed by representatives of all Soviet republics.
As for heads of OGPU, NKVD and MGB:
1. Feliks Dzierzinski (December 1917 - July 1918, August 1918- July 1926) - Pole.
2. Jakob Peters (July-August 1918) - Latvian.
3. Wiaczeslaw Mienzinski (July 1922 - May 1934) - Pole.
4. Heinrich Jagoda (July 1934 - September 1936) - Jew.
5. Nicolas Ezhov (September 1936 - November 1938) - Russian.
6. Laurence Beria (November 1938 - December 1945, March - June 1953) - Georgian.
7. Sergei Kruglov (December 1945 - March 1946) - Russian.
8. Vsevolod Merkulov (March - May 1946) - Russian.
9. Victor Abakumov (May 1946 - July 1951) - Russian.
10. Semen Ignatiev (July 1951 - March 5 1953) - Russian.

Lets try to count: Russians - 9 year and 2 month; Pole - 20 years 5 month; Georgian - 7 years 5 month; Jew - 2 years and 2 month: Latvian - 1 month.
We can see that during the most part of Stalin's repressions a chiefs of the Soviet servises OGPU, NKVD & MGB wasn't Russians.
So, try to understand a simple logic, Sir: Ruler of USSR - Stalin (Georgian), rulers of OGPU/NKVD - guys from Poland, Gergia. And here we, Russian?

 

Moreover. Russians was the main and most numerous Stalin's victims. Please look at statistic.

 

I`ve underlined the word "Russian" to show that the heart of the party was in Russia. Bolshevik revolution, Russian Social Democratic Labour Party, governing body of Russia - Central Committee, it is all essentially today's physical Russia. I understand there were 15 subnational Soviet republics, it doesn't matter at this point. When people said USSR, they meant Russia + other republics. When people said Russia, they meant USSR, obviously. The big mistake here was yours, misunderstanding my idea.

As you have shown yourself, in addition to Stalin there were a lot of other people, sometimes also from other countries, and that's exactly what I tried to explain. You refuse to understand that country of birth means pretty much nothing in this case.

Lets imagine I will become the prime minister of Romania very soon, and the first thing I do is to declare war on Moldova, because I believe it is a part of Romania, unlawfully separated in the past. Should Australia be blamed for this war, just because I was born in Australia? Again, this was an example.

I am not talking about jews, or OGPU, NKVD & MGB heads, or any other irrelevant historical facts you keep bringing into discussion. I am trying to stay on topic and explain that there is no point blaming Georgia for what Stalin did.

If after this example you still can't see my point, I`ll waste my time by looking at coins, not participating in pointless off topic discussions.

 

Lets end our discussion, sir. We're forgot that it is numismatic but not political forum.
Regards.

 

I dropped off this discussion because it becomes too political. I have many thoughts about this subject of course, but do not think it good idea to share them here. Siberian, we could have very fascinating discussion, because of course we speak same other language and have well thought out viewpoints. I wish those could be shared with others, but in this numismatic forum it not possible.

Back on topic, in Ukraine and Russia there are many shared commemorative topics, Sergei Korolyev for example who were so important to development of space exploration.

 

Oh, yeah. Look at this!

 

Sergei Korolyev was great man, it was regrettable that his accolades only came with his death. I am looking for the 2007 Goznak test note with Korolyev on it - they make commemorative paper note with his image on it. Let us not forget who was first in space - to great surprise in the West!

 

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