Scary Counterfeit PCGS Holder

Matt, are you "verypq" on eBay?

Verypq is Barry Stupplier a PNG dealer well know in the hobby.

 

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I believe your question was answered earlier in the thread and that was exactly what I was talking about. If you look at the barcode of the fake slab, you can see peaks and valleys on the top of the barcode. It looks like an early ink jet printer and the ink ran. Legit PCGS slabs have crisp barcodes. I'm sure many people, including myself, would've overlooked this when buying this coin. From now on I'll be sure to look much closer to the slabs I buy.

 

yeah that serial number doesnt come up on pcgs's website as in it was never used. guess you have to start looking up any coin that has any sort of doubt. unless im just looking the coin up wrong somehow




ok never mind now i see it

 

:foot-mouth:?

No offense, but do you really think this gentleman would start a thread about a counterfeit slab while offering it as genuine on ebay? Also, "China men"?

 

How does "contunually improving" help when we buy old holdered coins and even pay premiums sometimes for them?

 

I see your point...

Unless you think something like this was produced in the U.S... Which scares me even more!

-Brian

 

You know, I bet counterfeiters and slab counterfeiters love our coin forums when we go fine pick and comb to show what they did wrong and how to make it look more genuine. I say PCGS Should use some of the BEP's ideas of security features? Security bands and watermarks? As for the coins, we can only help them.

 

The problem is, the slabs and stickers, right down to the sonic sealing device, is made in China. Who's to say it's not the manufacturer that isn't making these and selling to third parties there? A genuine slab and coin with a fake label will be the most dangerous counterfeit yet, and it's just a matter of time until we start to see that. PCGS, NGC and the others need to spend the extra 19 cents per slab and buy locally or make them themselves. That is the only way they'll ever have a truely proprietary security device.
Guy

 

If trust in the old slabs vanishes, and new "secure" slabs are introduced are you all gonna pay for the upgrades?

 

Even if they did buy domestically, counterfeiting would continue. There are crooks here in the US, too.

 

Honestly, I have been wondering when this would happen. Nothing on a slab is very high tech at all. Unless they wish to start putting encrypted microchips that would enable a reader to verify security, there is nothing in current slabs that cannot be replicated pretty darn easily.

I hate to say it, but everyone should go back to learning how to grade their own selves, and not rely on any slab. I know I am preaching to the choir here, since most here can grade, its those who buy with little knowledge I am worried about.

Chris

 

May be there are, but US laws apply here they don't in China.

 

To some, even here in the US, laws mean nothing.

 

Maybe the TPG's should start putting "chop marks" on the coin before placing in a slab... like 65PL on the edge ???????? JK !!

 

Not really far fetched really. They could laser engrave a tiny microscopic code so small you couldn't see it, but enough to specifically identify the coin.

 

Oh come on, Rick... all Americans are saintly honest. Didn't you know? The only way such a counterfeit slab could exist here was if a foreigner was somehow behind it.

I cannot be the only one who sees that having the equipment to produce such slabs on US soil would be more profitable than having the genuine coins shipped out of country, slabbed, and returned. A few years ago there was a similar thing going on locally with NGC slabs. Although it was much more obvious and nothing more than a quick flip con aimed at deal mentality buyers, the principle was the same... genuine coin, fake (or in that case, altered) slab.

You're absolutely right, but its also worth mentioning that a certain minority of collectors are far too focused on the "deal at all costs" mentality, so that between the two, this type of thing is really a perfect storm waiting to happen. With the NGC slabs above, every person I know who was hit bought because they saw dollar signs instead of the coin. Using the 87-S $1 as the example, think of it this way... if that coin was a 63 crackout placed in a 65 holder, how quickly do you think it would sell at 30-40% 65 ask to a private buyer on craigslist? I know of a few local so-called dealers who - as long as the cert matched - would not think twice about it.

 

The counterfeit slab is disturbing. However, I believe the most important issue is: what would you grade the coin?

A grade from a respected third-party grader is only a starting point for any serious collector. Investors, and many catering to investors, will almost always be prey to fakes, no matter the item.

A serious collector will look at at least a few of a certain grade coin before purchasing (if possible, of course) because not all MS65 coins (or whatever the specific grade) are created equal. After inspecting several coins, the serious collector will purchase what he/she believes to be the "cherry" and probably not pay much more for it.

Therefore, if the slab is fake (as long as the coin is real - as stated by another it is probably easier to fake the slab than the coin) the coin will have a better probability of receiving the hoped for grade rather than a lower one.

My philosophy is, unless you have the funds, when a big price difference exists between one grade and the next (such as in many Morgan and Peace dollars), look for a great slabbed specimen of the lower grade and resubmit it to your grading company of choice.

 

No the counterfeiters use genuine numbers almost every fake slab out there will verify on the TPG's website.

They wouldn't destroy the coin but the holder and the logo are their trademarked property so I could see them destroying the slab.

As for my comments on the slab I sent a PM to Matt shortly after he posted it. it is a fake and the first of these that I had a change to examine was back in January. When the first PCGS fakes appeared back in 2008 several identifying flaws were published on line by PCGS. There were several other features that were not discussed and which do not show up well in pictures. I wrote a couple articles about them that were distributed privately but not publicly published. These new fakes not only corrected the published flaws but almost all of the unpublished ones as well. I've learned not to discuss identifying characteristics of the fake slabs in open forums because I strongly suspect the counterfeiters do monitor the coin forums and use our information on what the flaws are and then fix them.

You would think so but they have made no changes to the slab other than the edgeview insert since 2005 even though the fake slabs began appearing in early 2008.

 

When was Secure Plus introduced?

 

I believe 2010 but the only change made to the holder for those was the gold shield put on the front label. And only a minority of submitted coins are sent in for the Secure Plus program.