Hi, I bought this 1793 Chain Cent years ago. What do you think about it: Is it a fake or a real one? (weight: 13.77 g). The date is visible. Thank you!
I've never studied chain cents because I haven't worked up the courage to buy one yet, so I have no idea. Guy
I am going to go with fake. I cannot get the devices to line up with any of the known varieties. You need to wait for one of the real experts.
I'm with Mark; I have concerns it's a fake. The edge is way wrong; all chain cents are "vine and bars" edge. This one looks like a gripped edge. It's possible it's a post-mint thing. It's also possible the v&b motif is worn away though I've never seen that happen, even on severely Beatdown coins.
The hair, eye and nose look correct to me. I'm not sure why the default answers are always fake. I see no reason for someone to fake something that looks that bad. I think it's real.
Easy - because it is a chain cent. Go price even the damaged and beat up ones and you will see why they are faked so often. People buy the fakes, beat them up, corrode them, etc. - just to sell them. Next learn how to attribute them and maybe I can learn something. I spent about 30 minutes looking at examples trying to match it up to know varieties looking at heritage and other sites. There are 4 varieties S-1 thru S-4(and an NC-1) - not an S-1 since america is spelled out. Not an S-4 just looking at how liberty is spread out - especially the ERTY. So that leaves S-2, S-3 and NC-1 - just let me know which one it is? Not even sure how you can tell the hair is okay. As I mentioned wait for conder, marshall or mike to show up and check it out.
The details that I can make out look right, the copper looks correct for the age and I stand by my call. Mark, I know what the price is and I understand why somebody would fake one. I guess I'm not as cynical as you, maybe you'll call it prudent but it comes across as condescension.
And I bet there are several sellers are ebay who are glad you are not as cynical as me. Of course I have stated twice so far to wait for an expert - but I guess I am too condescending to get that across.
I'm not saying either way, but I would assume anyone willing to pay the kind of money a chain cent commands would verify it's authenticity by a professional beforehand. I can't imagine anyone would pay for a house without first seeing the inside and getting an inspection. If the piece has never been properly verified there must be a good reason why. May seem condescending to some, but the rest of us have learned to ere on the side of caution through years of experience. Guy
Car123 Welcome to the Forum. A question would be : Who did you purchase it from? A well known dealer that handles such coppers would be a good start. If it was eBay or a show, less faith. Many will have apprehension about commenting on a questionable coin as sometimes the coin ends up on an auction site in a few days with the good comments made here as a selling point and non of the opposing comments. One of the Cointalk rules is to separate the coin comments from any person comments. You can call the coin trash if one wishes as it is just an opinion, but one can't trash another person or their opinion as long as it is within the rules. I strongly recommend you having it authencticated. IMO. Jim
If you have a doubt send it to ANACS. They might be able to certify it. I know there is a couple of ANACS coins on ebay now that I am not sure how they attributed them. No offense meant or intended, but I would not buy those 2 ANACs coins on ebay because I can't attribute the coins myself from the pictures.
I am far from an expert in these, but appreciate the work Mark did on these. These coins have been faked for decades, or more than a century even. There have even been more "legitimate" fakes like the press in AR that made these with the word "COPY" on them. Since it is such a highly faked item, for so long, the ONLY way I would ever say one "looked good" is if I could die match it. I am with you H8 Modern that many times we are too quick to judge fake here, but especially in this case I think it must be assumed fake and proven good. I would say the same with a Continental Currency dollar, many other colonial patterns, Willow tree coinage, and of course items like brasher doubloons, 1804 dollars, etc. Some things just have been copied so much that there are 100 times more fakes than authentic examples, and this is one such coin.
If it is genuine it is an S-2. The spacing of the letters in LIBERTY and digits of the date eliminate anything else. The edge bothers me because the edge design usually remains even on low grade coins. I take that back. I just checked my low grade S-2 and the edge does NOT show well, especially the vine part of the design. On the other hand the bars are much finer/closer together than what I'm seeing on this coin. I wouldn't say for sure it is a fake, but I do find it questionable.
What about the C-T in cent and spacing to the chain? Seems to me from the ones I looked at the spacing seemed father away and not as close as this one - maybe wear. Or should it even matter? Anyway for this coin I would pick a TPG and send it in. Try to get it authenticated. Good luck and I hope I am wrong.
Put a couple of comparisons together. This is the S-2 on the bottom for a goldbergs sale. The RTY still look to wide for the S-2. And the C and T look too close to the chain. Just pointing out some of the discrepancies that I see. I could not find an NC-1 where I could compare the liberty - NC-1 has the widest liberty. Still not sure about this coin - but do hope I am wrong. We need more of these available.
