Judge upholds government's claim to $80M in rare gold coins

September 07, 2012
FoxNews.com


Ten of the rarest and most valuable coins in the world were almost certainly stolen from the federal mint in Philadelphia and therefore belong to the U.S. government and not heirs of a coin dealer who found them in his safe deposit box, a federal judge ruled.

The Augustus Saint-Gaudens double eagles $20 pieces were among some 445,500 struck during the Great Depression. But nearly all were pulled out of circulation within weeks as President Roosevelt ordered U.S. banks to abandon the gold standard. It was originally believed that all but a pair of the double eagles was melted down into gold bars. One of the surviving coins fell into the hands of King Farouk of Egypt, and sold for more than $7.5 million at a Sotheby's auction in the summer of 2002.

But in 2003, three grandchildren of a coin dealer named Israel Swift found 10 if the coins in a safe deposit box after Swift's death. It turned out the coins had been given to Swift by Philadelphia Mint cashier George McCann years ago. The coins were seized by the government when the heirs took them to the mint seeking authentication. Since then, Swift's grandchildren, Joan, Roy and David Langbord, have been battling in court to prove they are the rightful owners of the coins.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/0...hould-be-forfeited-to-us-judge/#ixzz25nih3Qdd

Moral: If you find coins like these, don't go to the Mint for authentication.

 

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While this sucks, this is what I get out of it.

Government issues the gold dollar for circulation.
Thus gold dollar is placed in casher drawers at the mint.
Government issues statement the morning of blah,blah no more gold, remove gold coins.
Teller hearing this news in the afternoon decides to take coins from drawer and pocket them.

Since he took them after fact then they would be stolen. While it's crummy, it's understandable.

 

I wonder why Fox is just now reporting this. This is really old news. If I had found these I would have taken them out of the country.

 

This was an appeal of the initial court ruling. The judge this week upheld the jury's verdict from last year.

 

Many people think this is a crappy decision; however, the public was under orders from POTUS, in April of 1933 to surrender all gold coins, bullion, and certificates by May 1, 1933. Even though the Mint had been releasing these coins that year, the POTUS' order was for anyone in possession of gold coins to turn them into any federal reserve bank, or bank in the federal reserve system.

Anyone who didn't was in violation of the law.

 

Sounds like that POTUS was in some ways comparable to the man who took power in Germany in 1933.

 

The family knew exactly what they had and they also knew that it was illegal for them to sell or even own the coins prior to forcing the Federal government to monetize them and declare them legal. Therefore, it may be likely that they and their attorneys forumulated a plan that would require the court system to recognize that they were legally obtained. Their gamble did not pay off thus far.

As for FDR and http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=14611&st=&st1=, there is considerable misunderstanding in the public. The Order did require folks to surrender gold bullion, gold coinage and gold certificates to the Federal government, but the Federal government paid people for these items with an equivalent value in silver or paper notes. Also, each person was allowed to keep $100 face value in gold coins or gold certificates, which was roughly the equivalent of $5,000 face value in today's funds. Additionally, gold coins with special numismatic value were specifically exempt from this Order and did not need to be surrendered. The order also allowed gold to transfer freely from businesses to individuals and back as long as there was some type of professional or industrial need for the gold in the future. Essentially, enough safeguards were built into the Order that all the gold coinage and gold certificates that the government ever issued could have theoretically been saved without being turned in for redemption and exchange.

What makes these double eagles different than other coins is that the Federal government has argued that they did not authorize the release of these pieces and that the pieces in private hands were obtained before the coinage was monetized. Thus, the Federal government claims they are illegal to own and those who have them must prove that they were obtained legally.

 

I hope at some point the government and the family can get together and make a deal.
I'm thinking they split the money on the one that sold.
It would be interesting to know the total legal cost up to this point. It must be several million by now.

 

You give them too much credit!

 

Actually, no he was not.

Because of Roosevelt's E.O. 6102, that helped to get America on the road to recovering from the Great Depression, which was a world wide event, not just American.

 

The big question is whether it was a LAWFUL order. The POTUS has acted with impunity on many matters which are Unconstitutional. The SCOTUS then crowns itself with the authority to be the final authority to determine Constitutionality. Congress meekly acquiesced to the power grab because it liked the ruling of the day. Then precedence replaced the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the Land. All this within 40 years of our founding.

Our experiment with Constitutional Law has been over for 200 years.

The Constitution gives no authority to take property in the form of GOLD without just compensation. Only Gold and Silver is Constitutional Money.

 

:devil:
Who is to say that Swift had only 10 coins? Perhaps he has 100 more squirreled away in another box ??? Makes you wonder.

 

The real morale of the story is that you never bring stolen property to the place it was stolen from to make sure it is real.

Imagine someone buying your stolen TV at a pawn shop and bringing it back to you to make sure it works, think you would tell him to shove off and leave the TV? Then he goes to court to try and get the TV back from you, think the judge would give it to him?

 

The gold coins were not being taken until after the dealine and no one surrendered them voluntarily. Up until that point, people could exchange their gold coins for dollars, at a price that POTUS set per ounce.

 

I don't know anyone who would be so stupid as to take a coin such as these to the US Mint for authentication. That is mind boggling. The Gov't sucks big time to take those coins away and leave the rightful heirs without anything at all. Since the Gov't knows darn well the coins could be sold for millions of dollars they should at least buy them from the owners. Only problem with that is the Gov't doesn't have to as everyone knows they were definitely stolen. Israel Swift should have sold them while he was still alive. He could have easily sold them at auction, maybe even on ebay. Now the heirs will probably get paid spot by the Gov't. You, see a mind is a terrible thing to waste so keep that in mind. Being honest and stupid are never good traits to have together.

 

I agree that the people made a poor decision to take the coins to the US Mint for authentication. However, I disagree with you when you say the rightful heirs. They're not the rightful heirs if the coins where stolen from the US Mint. Just because you received something from your kin, doesn't automatically mean that you are the rightful owner. If someone steals something from you, and gives it to their heirs when they die, does this negate the fact that the item was stolen to begin with? I think not. Sure it stinks that they gov't took back the coins, but the coins were the governments to take back. IMO.

 

The price of gold was changed by a combination of the Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933 and the Gold Reserve Act of 1934 so that it could be no lower than $34.45 per troy ounce. Roosevelt was in favor of these acts, but they were passed by Congress and the authority to change the price of gold was given to Roosevelt by Congress. The Agricultural Adjustment Act of 1933 transfered the power to change the price of gold to the President (Roosevelt) while the Gold Reserve Act of 1934 mandated a minimum $34.45 per troy ounce price of gold.

 

Just curious.............. What is the statute of limitations on theft? If in fact, this was a case of theft!

 

"Statutes of Limitations" only apply to prosecutions.

They don't apply to retrieval of stolen goods.

Stories appear all the time about stolen cars being reunited with owners after 40 or 50 years, usually sports cars like Mustangs that were popular in the 1960's.