Post your ASE photos, any year

Had to have been wrapped in some high sulfur paper and left in a hot humid area , like an attic . IMHO . I'm surprised PCGS slabbed this puppy as market acceptable .

 

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Yes, i have to admit that i have no idea if the 2006 ASE was a baked potato or not. I always rely on PCGS to separate market acceptible coins for me.

However the seller told me that this was "envelope toning" from a 2x2 paper coin envelope. The "tell" for him was the "V" or almost "X" pattern on the obverse -- that's where the back side flaps folded inwards and the envelope flap closed creating that X signature. The reverse of the ASE was the side that was up against the solid front of the envelope which is why the toning pattern is more solid and smoother on the reverse of the coin.

If someone was doing this purposely, to cook the coin, they should have put the obverse of the coin up against the solid (front) side of the envelope (since obverse toning takes precedence over reverse toning in terms of market value).

So did the first owner of this coin purposely put it in an envelope to tone it, maybe he did (I sure don't know!) -- but perhaps the clear envelope signature on the obverse of the coin and the fact that the owner didn't put the obverse up against the flat (front) side of the envelope, was enough evidence to PCGS that this was not intentional. (But perhaps this really only meant that the original owner didn't know what they were doing.)

Six years is kind of a short span for so-called NT or market acceptable toning to develop, however not for Silver Eagles which are made up of 99.9% pure silver, which is MUCH MORE reactive than the more typical 90% silver and 10% copper alloy seen in regular US silver coinage.

NT? AT? Beats me! You would need to be able to read the mind of the person that owned this coin when it toned -- and who can do that?

However in PCGS plastic this has a good market for resale as there are thousands of colorfully-toned ASE collectors out there (especially PCGS slabbed ones). And this coin has the distinction of being (at least tied for) the highest PCGS-graded colorfully-toned ASE that I have ever seen. (I bet there is a colorful PCGS MS70 floating out there somewhere, but I have never seen it). In any case for those that think coins like this are easy to cook, and then get into PCGS plastic, have at it, then post your PCGS slabbed creations, I for one would love to see them! I might even buy them off you!!

Coins tone because they react to the environment over time -- and copper and silver are fairly reactive metals. And if they are in contact with paper that contains sulfur, the toning can accelerate (like Matte Proof Lincolns that were wrapped in tissue paper by the mint, envelope and album toning from paper with traces of sulfur, or some coin holders (like PCI holders). Sometimes coins tone simply exposed to air and humidity.

The whole idea of NT vs AT is really all about intention of the owner. If the toning was an accident (or not intentional), then the toning is considered NT or Market Acceptable by the TPG's. If the toning was intentional then it's considered AT. Trying to read the mind of a previous coin owner is a near impossible task. And I am sure the grading companies struggle with this issue.

 

2011 W, 2012 W burnished.

 

Winged, there are always folks that will rain on your parade. Everybody is an expert with NT and AT. PCGS calls it natural, so that is good enough for me--I have no claims of omniscience, unless it is an obvious case of toning by artificial means. To me, your coin is totally within the realm of normal toning, and I have seen rainbow toning on so many coins. It does not take "sulphur paper" to tone a coin like that. Having lived in Florida for many years, I can tell you that the humidity here does an excellent job of turning white coins into toned ones quite naturally, and it doesn't take 20 years. SO enjoy your coin, and ignore the critics--they are probably jealous that they didn't find it first. I think it is a stunner!

 

Excellent write up and explanation WingedLiberty. I thought you might take excetion to my devilish wise crack but you took it in stride and countered my post most marvelously.

Now......who the devil uses those manila flips anymore? Can you even buy them anymore? A few years ago I was going through a lot of stuff from an old collection of mine....Stuff that I had amassed as a youngster and hadn't looked at in years. I had accumulated a lot of coins, medals, and halfs from the sixties (along with a few Morgan and Peace dollars) and I wanted to transfer them out and into new 2x2 cardboard holders. I was absolutely blown away by the colorful toning on the cent coins as well as a few of the Morgans. Reds, blues, greens, magenta's, but I must confess, had I cracked the collection out a few years earlier I would have been sadly disappointed with my find. You see, being a child of the sixties, I was stuck on the fact that coins should be either blast white or radiant red copper. It has been because of my exposure to this forum that I have reversed my old views regarding toning. I rather like and enjoy it nowadays.

Now to the question of artificial or natural. Back in the sixties we had little in the way of options to store our coins. It was either manila flips, coin albums or folders. Today we have much better storage means in the form of airtight holders or cardboard 2x2 holders or even PVC free plastic flips. The advancement to archival quality storage means coins will not age (tone) as quickly as they did in the past. For someone to use an antiquated means of storage (one that is known to be reactive in nature) is doing so for one reason, and one reason alone and that is to achieve this high rate of toning in the shortest period of time. The toning may be occurring naturally, but the intent to do so is not. It's to exploit the recent popularity of beautifully toned coins and gain as much money as possible in their production.......and it is production my friends.

And Morgan Dude? I ain't trying to rain on anyones parade. I'm just questioning the so called spin doctors motives.....

 

Naw, green I wasn't trying to argue with you. IT is just that some climates and storage methods that are totally legitimate have a drastic impact on silver coins. The 2x2s can and will tone silver coins in a short period of time, if left exposed to the elements. I have seen it with mine own eyes. Same goes for albums and flip storage in a humid place. A lot of my toned coins have come from Southern Climates, where heat in the Winter is a non-issue, and windows are left open in the Winter, as it is warm enough. That level of humidity in a house could well tone a coin in a couple of years. Also, my house down here (that I lived in for years before selling it and buying this condo) had a shallow well for irrigation--lots of stinky Sulphur water. The minerals in the air in Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia are enough to tone an unprotected Silver coin in a short period of time, quite naturally. I had a white Morgan get toned in two years, and I guarantee that I did nothing to accelerate it, but leave it in a flip.

 

This is an interesting discussion and I don't mind critics!! It helps pass the time and sometimes you (or I) might even learn something from the various arguments.

There is one other interesting signature on this coin. I circled two areas of more intense toning on the obverse and reverse. Note that the areas marked "1" and "2" are exactly opposite one another ... on the exact opposite (flip) side of the coin (since the reverse of US coins are flipped from the obverse). It seems very plausible that the reason those two exact areas had more heavy toning was there must have been more "contact pressure" between the 2x2 envelope and the coin in those areas ... perhaps from just the way it was mushed into a box of coins (either horizontally or vertically) and it sat that way for 3, 4, or 5 years. So the more vivid and deeper colors in just those two exact spots developed as the sulfur in the paper reacted more strongly due to the increased contact and pressure in that region.

It still doesn't really answer the question of whether the person that owned this coin when it toned did this intentionally or by accident, but it seems pretty clear that the toning occurred inside a 2x2 envelope.

It's fun when coin toning investigation turns us all into ameteur Sherlock Holmes's! And I would LOVE to have heard the discussion amongst the 3 professional PCGS graders that looked at and blessed this coin as NT (market acceptable). It makes me wish PCGS grading notes were available, as I for one would love reading them.

 

:dead-horse: I know, I know.... its SGS (Suckers Gone Silly)

 

Not quite "100% White"

 

To me, this looks like the toning imparted from a Taco Bell Napkin but I do not disagree with the TPG's decision to slab the coin.

 

Here's my 2012 set ordered in week two. Is there such a thing as a special 'last strike' label? Some really nice pictures of the reverse proofs here. Maybe someday I can hold one in my hand...

 

Yeah, maybe you're right Lee. I guess it's now acceptable to place a coin in an sulfur reactant flip, put it in a mayonnaise jar, and keep it on Funk and Wagnall's porch since noon (anytime) 2006...........

 

Here is my silver hoard. The rolls you see are ASE Tubes 86-96. The singles are each individual year, also have a bunch of silver state quarter rolls, ASE proofs, etc etc.

 

Omg rockford

 

http://www.coinsite.com/content/articles/CMO-AO.asp

 

Pardon the poor quality, but this is one of my favorite ASE pictures. Not much variety either, dang things are all dated 2011, oh-well.

 

Sweet. Nice addition to your retirement fund. I believe raw sets are the best investment for those coins unless all five sets came back as 70s. I sent my five sets to NGC for grading. One or two sets came back 70s and one 69. I bough some loose NGC 70 coins and created another 70s and now have three NGC sets, one 69 set and the rest are mixed. I think I would have been better off keeping the five ungraded sets.
I Like graded coins because they are so much easier to store.

Mike