I'm sorry to ask such a noob question, and apologize if this is a topic that's been hashed/rehashed. I have been searching on the forum, but haven't found a (recent) answer or opinion. I know PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and ICG are regarded as the top four "trusted" graders (in no particular order). During my research, I've been stumbling on to some dated opinions on ICG. Seems that they were highly regarded at some point because they hired some respected graders, have a strict policy on employees not allowed to collect, and being more consistent with their grades. I've also read they were located in CO, but now in FL...not sure if that really matters. It also seems their reputation has taken a hit lately because their slabbed coins don't sell. I'd like to know, what is the general opinion on ICG? Are they consistent or has the grade quality slipped in recent years? Is there good opportunity in picking up ICG slabbed coins or am I better sticking with the others? Thanks
IGC is a second-tier grading service. I'd call them distinctly inferior to PGCS, NGC (first tier), and ANACS (top of the second tier). I have not found their grading to be consistent enough to justify using them, or buying coins in IGC slabs.
I'd rather not "stick" to one or the other. Especially if I'm buying the coin and not the slab, but I do want to understand ICG's (recent years) reputation and how to approach their grading.
Icg If you like the coin, agree with the grade and it's at a good price why not? I only have two ICG slabbed coins, both proof Roosevelt dimes. Actually I kind of like the little holders. Just beware that if you ever want to sell it may be more difficult. At the Boston ANA show a couple years ago ICG was offering free appraisals. I had just bought a raw Barber half dollar which the seller had called a VG-10. I thought it was a VG-10. Just for the heck of it I showed it to the ICG grader for his opinion. He looked it over for quite some time and said VG-10. As far as me buying coins in ICG slabs or submitting to them, I think not. PCGS is the absolute all around accepted king. NGC is also great. I use ANACS when I submit raw coins simply because a rep is at a local show and he ships them for free. All I want most of the time is to know the coin are authentic. ANACS is the most cost effective way to go. Right now the ANACS 15 day service is $15 per coin if you submit ten coins and I pay return shipping.
When ICG started they were very strict and attempted to join the likes of PCGS and NGC. However, it quickly became apparent that market share was not there for them with this paradigm and they, along with ANACS, are no longer considered top tier. Truly, only PCGS and NGC command exceptionally widespread respect and/or marketplace acceptance. A few years ago the ICG and ANACS staffs, headquarters and managers did an enormous mash-up with the results being truly confusing.
I always find it odd when people say that. I mean, after all, ANACS is owned by the man who set the grading standards for ICG, and the ANACS staff/graders used to work at ICG. So now, ANACS uses the same grading standards, and the same graders, that ICG used to use. While ICG now has the same staff/graders and grading standards that the old ANACS used to have. So shouldn't things be the other way around ?
If you want to know about ICG then why don't you call and talk to ICG? Call them and talk to them about your concerns. I have done this with PCGS and NGC and both were very friendly and helpful. My grandmother use to tell me if you want to know something go straight to the horses mouth otherwise you risk being the other end of the horse. Most of the dealers I know buy the coin in a ICG slab but also subtract what it will cost them to get the coin regraded into a PCGS or NGC slab so it has greater resale value.
ASK yourself first..Am I Coin Collector or a Kind of BUY & Sell Person. If you are coin Collector Buy the Beauty of a Coins, Now If you are the Later One. Buy whatever plastic you want..ANACS<ICG<NGC<PCGS..or maybe ACG if you are looking for the oldest slab and it is Now Collectable holder/slab too. BTW here's some slab from ICG Proof 70 DCAM.
The comments by both Tom B and GDJMSP hit the nail on the head and is one of the reasons why I'm asking these questions. I want to hold reputable TPG slabs and have trouble understanding the differences as to the what and why of the "1st tier, 2nd tier and top four"...especially if the coin is appropriately graded. I am new to coin collecting and my intention is to collect/hold rather that be in the "business" of buying/selling. btw...thanks for the quick replies!
Could be and maybe should be, but for whatever reason (perception, personal preference, ANACS history, etc) and regardless of the facts you listed, ANACS is generally more accepted and/or viewed in a more positive way.. or so it seems. If (IF) the IGC/ANACS coin is properly graded, from an individual collector's standpoint, the holder may not matter. The problem with these holders comes into play when its time to sell/trade. Look at posts in this very thread about how the companies are viewed... its very telling as the holder is often what is judged and not the coin inside. While there are properly graded coins in ANACS and IGC holders, they are relatively few and far between. Consistency is also more of an issue with the two. It also should be noted that each TPG grades to their own standard. PCGS and NGC may be the top two, but don't expect the same coin to receive the same grade at either TPG. This is where understanding how the coins you collect are graded at each company.
You may rather not but it's solid advice that you shouldnt turn up your nose at; being a noob. PCGS coins historically get better prices at auction than the same coin, same grade in an NGC holder. These are the best of the best and to scoff at having to stick with either is a tad elitist for a noob. Just saying, if you want a set to hand down through the ages or realize the best price while you are at the end of your life and need to eat. You could do much worse by purchasing slabbed coins from lesser quality companies, even if they are properly graded.
Yeah I know. And I know why. It is because before the two companies (ICG and ANACS) traded places ANACS had been considered to have much tougher grading standards than ICG did. In fact, there was a time when ANACS was considered to have tougher grading standards than NGC had. People remember those things. And a whole lot of people are not aware of the changes that took place with ANACS. To them, ANACS is the same company it always was operating on the same old grading standards that it always used. So they think that ANACS is still a better TPG than ICG is. If they knew, or were aware of the truth, they probably would not think that way. Or at least they shouldn't. The point is, just because the market in general, (or the majority of collectors if you prefer to say it that way). has a certain perception, that does not mean that perception is correct or valid.
I'm certainly not turning my nose up or scoffing anything...I appreciate every ones input...and the fact that I'm a noob is why I'm asking these questions. At the end of the day, you are correct...it may be better to focus on the top 2, but I have trouble accepting, "buy these because everyone else does". I don't want to miss out on opportunities to pick up some good coins, especially when people turn their noses up to the slab. I just want a better understanding (reputation/perception) of the others TPG's (more specifically ICG), and am having trouble finding that information.
When you learn enough about coins that you can judge, with confidence, if a coin is worth the asking price or if it is graded correctly, then you can buy coins in any slab or even raw. Until then, stick with NGC and PCGS and forget about all the rest. But once you get there, then you forget about what it says on ANY slab, including NGC and PCGS, and judge the coin yourself
Books, I think the reason why ANACS has a better "perception" has to do with their treatment of older "problem" coins,and the fact that they almost created the niche of finding a way to deal with them. As you know, there are lots of important, valuable and attractive older American coins. THe Bust halves are most typical of this--most of those on the market were cleaned, some heavily, and with damage to the coins. They were collected in the days where cleaning wasn't the sin it is today, and as such, there are so many of them that have been harshly cleaned, whizzed, buffed,etc. Many of those coins were automatically body bagged by PCGS and NGC right off the bat--just sent home in flips with "no grade." What ANACS created was the "details" slab, wherein a nice coin, but a coin with problems could find a home in a holder--say for instance, an AU Bust half with wonderful details, but the victim of a cleaning. The coin still looked attractive enough, and had sufficient value to be slabbed, and thus, it was--with a designation for its problem. This added to the financial marketability of said coins, and their general acceptance. Also, ANACS was great on the attribution of varieties of older coins as well. The IGC "portion" of this conglomerate did far less in this area. These are the two primary reasons that I feel ANACS has merit in excess and separate from IGC.
Doug, your opinion is dated here. The market values ANACS coins about where they used to value ICG coins, because the work is approximately equivalent to where it used to be (before the grading staff swap). However the ownership of ICG was exposed when the graders swapped companies and the market responded to what it found out was going on behind the scenes at ICG and their product is no longer salable in the mainstream marketplace. It simply isn't respected. To the OP - as has been told to you already, you need to avoid coins in any holders other than NGC and PCGS . The properly graded ANACS and ICG coins have virtually all been crossed into NGC/PCGS holders by dealers with far more experience than a "noob" collector (your words). Buying coins in those holders if you aren't an advanced grader yourself is asking for trouble (i.e. an expensive mistake that you didn't notice). Save yourself the frustration and expense and stick with NGC/PCGS until you are an expert yourself.
let this answer your question scubaz, I know of no independent professional numismatists who would send a coin to ICG to get it graded right now. That should speak volumes.
