The "Weary" thread has been locked so.....

Elijahhenry? Based on what I've seen you post, I think I've a fair game of the type of person that you are. If you had something to offer I'd have no problem considering it for purchase. Your 'handle' is partially biblical and you hail from Pennsy. Good enough for this old boy.....

 

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Wow!! I guess some guy ripped off a couple of newbie's for some hard earned cash, that sucks. I honestly don't see what CoinTalk can do about it as they certainly don't have any liability in a situation like this. Maybe they can require sellers to have more than 50 posts or something like that and that may stop some of the riff raff but you really gotta step slowly when getting into a cash up front purchase. I'm really curious what this flim flam man had going for himself that he could have two different buyers hand over more than $1,000 to a guy that nobody really new on this forum?? Am I missing something?

 

Last night, I went to the website www.usacoinbook.com , a small coin forum much like ours. They have a current Scam Alert posted on their Home page, detailing an individual living in Melbourne, Brevard County, Florida, posting under 10 different identities on the website, over the past year or two.

The individual has apparently failed to pay for purchases, and failed to deliver items he sold. Here is one of the member comments:

"This guy [ ] is a scam artist. Beware!!! I did not get my merchandice and no refund. He has one excuse after another. He is a LIAR and a THIEF."

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I have no particular comment on this website's approach, except possibly the Webmaster there does not monitor IP addresses, which is not foolproof anyway.

 

There is.

CT rules state the a member must have 10 posts minimum before they can list items for sale in the B/S/T section.

 

Frankly, my guess is that 99% of the people on this forum don't know the other 99% personally, it is an open internet forum after all. He had enough of a presence including a web store that he looked slightly legit. The transaction was done through Google Wallet with a credit card, based on an invoice sent, not unlike ebay or through paypal, so as many protections were in place as possible. You win some, you lose some, this happens to be in the "lose some" variety, but at least lessons are learned for next time.

 

Sure, I just bought some junk silver from another member for about the same, and it went just fine. I'm just more careful about the process and making sure the purchase protection is stacked in my favor now...

 

I would absolutely support higher minimum standards for the BST area, but users are always free to impose their own criteria for whom they choose to buy from as well as sell to.

Perhaps a good compromise would be adding a sticky in the For Sale section detailing some of the potential pitfalls that come with buying and selling things on a web forum.

 

Ultimately the responsibility is on the buyer, obviously, to make that determination and decision to spend the money. However, I believe in making available as much information as possible to help the decision making process. I can see Doug's arguments about the effort required for certain things to be implemented, and still the possibility of them to be abused and become a "wasted" effort. I like the sticky idea, it's simple to implement and at least it's one more bit of ammo to add to the arsenal.

 

I understand what you are saying sir, but I would disagree with a sticky. The reason is legal. Once an organization starts to go down a path like that, the lawyers can always make an argument as to WHY did you only go that far, why did you not go further with warnings. Its sad, but in this day and age we are efectively forbidden by legal reasoning from doing some things to help people. If CT posted SOME warnings in the BST area, then in the future some lawyer could argue, "You posted warnings about 5 things, WHY didn't you post a warning about XXXXX?", and then try to hold CT culpable for a deal gone bad.

I don't like any more than you probably do, but its the sad truth nowadays. I believe the only changes CT could make could be to adjust post count or length of time requirements to the BST area. Nothing will ever make it unscammable unfortunately.

 

Let's be honest, how many read the rules of the forum before posting? and if they do, how many still go on and break them? Most of the time infractions are given are because people either (1) didn't read them and (2) didn't feel they were meant for them or that they know better what the rules should really be.

What Peter does with the rules or stickies is up to him, but I don't feel people will read the sticky before they jump to get a real steal, nor feel that they are susceptable to scams, or that such wouldn't happen to them.

The best alternative is for fellow members to remind newbies to tred carefully in auction and B/S/T on the internet. In threads where someone claims a real "rip" , a polite comment that it worked out this time but be careful and cautious, would be seen by more than a sticky few read. You would think that people would realize driving under influence, or texting while driving is unsafe, but the news has incidences almost every day of people who think they are immune to such. Perhaps a thread/poll on "what should be a minimum for B/S/T " would draw some interesting results.

Jim

 

Why thank you!

 

We would still have PM though, and I'm sure there would be deals their. I don't know if it would be possible to completely eliminate the problem.

 

Valid comment and concern. I try to read the stickies, but most people might not.

Honest question - Can other members post into B/S/T threads who didn't start them? Or would these be threads that would need to be started elsewhere, in the general forums?

If I interpret some of Doug's previous statements he doesn't want to have them in the general forums given the way they could devolve into ugliness, or simply just over-clutter the landscape (and I can agree with that).

It would seem the best place for something like that might just be a sub-forum under B/S/T where members could post their experiences or information, to keep it quarantined and relevant to that section. Those who don't have an interest in buying and selling could avoid the section and not need to see those types of posts in the general places.

Again, anything can be abused or ignored, so it's very difficult to find something that will help, and not become a black hole or an eye sore and be useless. If limited in a similar fashion with post counts, number of posts per member/per time limit, it might be useful. Heck, I'd be willing to offer my time to help watch over it.

 

I know you would have nothing to do with it, but if someone gets ripped off in PM, they would still want Cointalk to make it right. When someone does something stupid or make a mistake, they want something else to blame it on. Trust me, I have experience!

 

I think your legale advice may be wrong. cointalk could put out warnings. this is from craigslist site.
You can sidestep would-be scammers by following these common-sense rules whenever using craigslist:

• DEAL LOCALLY WITH FOLKS YOU CAN MEET IN PERSON - follow this one rule and avoid 99% of scam attempts.
• NEVER WIRE FUNDS VIA WESTERN UNION, MONEYGRAM or any other wire service - anyone who asks you to do so is likely a scammer.
• FAKE CASHIER CHECKS & MONEY ORDERS ARE COMMON, and BANKS WILL CASH THEM AND THEN HOLD YOU RESPONSIBLE when the fake is discovered weeks later.
• CRAIGSLIST IS NOT INVOLVED IN ANY TRANSACTION, and does not handle payments, guarantee transactions, provide escrow services, or offer "buyer protection" or "seller certification"
• NEVER GIVE OUT FINANCIAL INFORMATION (bank account number, social security number, eBay/PayPal info, etc.)
• AVOID DEALS INVOLVING SHIPPING OR ESCROW SERVICES and know that ONLY A SCAMMER WILL "GUARANTEE" YOUR TRANSACTION.
• DO NOT RENT HOUSING WITHOUT SEEING THE INTERIOR, OR PURCHASE EXPENSIVE ITEMS SIGHT-UNSEEN - in all likelihood that housing unit is not actually for rent and that cheap item does not exist.
• DO NOT SUBMIT TO CREDIT CHECKS OR BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR A JOB OR FOR HOUSING UNTIL YOU HAVE MET THE INTERVIEWER OR LANDLORD/AGENT IN PERSON.

 

Let me take a minute and thank Coin Talk (and Doug) for making this forum possible. Since joining and becoming a (paying) Supporter 5 weeks ago, I have sold 7 items, and all the buyers seem to be happy.

It's terrific to be able to bypass eBay completely and still market my duplicates and/or unwanted material. The minute my Supporter status runs out, I'll re-up, next time for an entire year.

It doesn't hurt that I have a perfect 100%-positive 2000+ Feedback on eBay, and therefore I know how to write understandable copy, package items properly, and strive for buyer satisfaction. I hope Coin Talk's BST function survives for many years, despite the occasional unpredictable and unavoidable glitch.

I suspect MANY members would lend a hand to keep BST alive.

 

Make it right is not quite the proper wording for what I meant. I was meaning to say that they would still want Cointalk to take action, such as ban a member.