CAC stickers don't bring premiums ?

You don't need a survey to know this is true. You just need to open your eyes.

 

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IMO, CAC does not "add" value. Informed collectors should know that to get a quality coin for the grade, or one with nice eye appeal, toning, etc, its going to cost more than the "standard" coin of that same grade level. There's one saying in the hobby: Great coins are not cheap, and cheap coins are not great. What CAC does is identify these "great" coins, which, in mine and others opinions, deserve premiums. What I'm really trying to say is, in general, established collectors who pay more for CAC coins aren't paying for the bean, but rather for the coin.

If you couldn't tell, I am a proponent for CAC. I recently sent four PCGS AU58s in and all four stickered. These weren't "dreck" and I paid the premiums for them even without the sticker.

 

Oh Mandy, LOL, I just knew you would you would pick up on that.

This is the exact words in the study


"Grading considerations taken into account by CAC are such qualities as the attractiveness of a coin’s luster and its eye-appeal, originality of surfaces, lack of outstanding blemishes, strong strikes, and attractiveness of toning. Coins that have unsightly abrasions, “grungy” toning, overly soft strikes, distracting spots, streaks, or other outstanding blemishes, for example, are not stickered by CAC.


As Larry said, No study needed, just Look.

But on a more serious note, your original post said you have no dog in this fight. If the majority of the coins you collect are of the Bullion\Wildlife series\ type, you are correct, TPG's and CAC will provide little value to you. So I don't get it. What's the beef? Also, if you have not bought and SOLD numismatic coins in the 4 digit range, I do not see how you would care or have the required knowledge to judge.

Maybe I can make a correlation. It seems you are a successful women and maybe you have a nice car. Maybe a BMW. Now some folks who never owned a BMW might say you paid extra just for the BMW logo on the hood. (aka the green been). Now you have experience driving the the car and with that experience, you know for a fact that you did not pay extra just for the emblem, but you inded paid extra because you got a better car. The skeptics may disagree, and say it has 4 wheels, 4 seats just like mine, but if you have experience in the high end car market, you know, it is not just like theirs. The engines runs smoother, the brakes work better and so on.

Its the same thing.... you are paying for the better coin not the sticker.

 

Well I guess we will disagree on the study. Just not the conclusions. I do find in some cases, not all cases, a premium is justified. As mentioned - just using my eyes.

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1171&lotNo=7392&lotIdNo=138045 - check this coin out Doug. This coin hammered nicely with a premium - but I paid less than half the hammer price buying it from a dealer without a premium. OH - a dealer I know you have recommended before. Now if the would just keep listing coins like that. Gotta love this hobby sometimes - heck all the time.

 

Paul, first I spend about 1k, not 10k per month. Second, I am a collector so I don't think its so weird that I collect, not sell. Third, I was posting here concerning the OP point on CAC, I even posted about their latest ad. You were the one who brought up yet again the issue bashing those who do not prefer slabs. I was not the one who brought this topic up again, yet I come here a few days later and find my posts slammed repeatedly.

Anyone can believe what they like, but I stand by my assertion that a majority of collectors buying slabs cannot grade coins themselves and simply rely on the slabs grade. Now, in the "stone age" there were also collectors who simply relied on the dealers grade as well, but not nearly as many who rely on TPG today.

I never claimed, asserted, or inferred there are not collectors who can grade great. This is demonstrated here repeatedly when someone posts a "guess the grade". There are great graders still, I simply believe the average collector is not. People who have been on CT here for a few years or more I would not really consider an average collector, would you?

 

Dude, you really crack me up. Please take a months worth of coin money and go buy a thicker skin. You proceed to call slab collectors "lazy" and then complain that I am bashing those who don't prefer slabs. Furthermore, I didn't bash those who prefer raw coins, I simply defended those that collect slabbed coins and gave the reasons why. Do you even realize how condescending some of your posts sound? You constantly infer that anyone who collects slabbed coins is inherently a "lesser" collector because they rely on the crutch of the professional graders and have substandard grading skills. You constantly tell people that any money they spend on coins should be considered lost money while gloating that you have $1K/month of disposable income. You constantly tout your advanced knowledge of coins and the coin market but admit that you have never sold a coin. When you make condescending and inflammatory posts, you should expect to get slammed.

 

Paul, any post I make in the last year concerning TPG is in response to those who believe ONLY TPG graded coins are worthy of being collected. You say so yourself in your terminology, calling unslabbed coins "raw", (meaning unfinished or incomplete, nomenclature invented by the TPG), calling those of us who collected unslabbed coins "dinosaurs", etc. It is those of us who collect unslabbed coins that are attacked on this board. It is the condescension of slabbed collectors that I react to, and if slabbed collectors, (especially in "Coin Chat" section that theoretically should cover ALL coins, not just US issues), would not be so condescending to non-slabbed collectors then I would never post about it.

My "lazy" comment, (and you already know this but like to use it out of context), was that buying pregraded coins has lessened the average collector's ability to grade himself. I was referring to on average, and in the next paragraph said there ARE still a great many good graders, and most people on CT are above average collectors.

Lastly, I don't think I have ever said I was an expert in the market. I believe I have shown grading ability, and coin knowledge here, but as far as being an expert in "the market" of course not. I believe only dealers are really experts in "the market". I am a consumer, and as such can tell you where to get some good deals on coin books, and certain series of ancient coins. I couldn't even tell you the better places for deals on US coins nowadays since I have been out of the market for too long for them.

 

So calling someone's entire collection of uncertified coins, nothing but dreck isn't bashing them?

Wow! Someone's ego needs deflating!

But then again, the air can be heard rushing from said ego on the Dreck thread!

 

So, to try to get this thread back on track, anyone else have an opinion why CAC would take out a full page ad in The Numismatist proclaiming how CAC doesn't add value to a coin?

I am just curious, since it cannot be cheap. Is it part of their branding strategy to position themselves as simply a "good sign" that a slab would be a fair buy? Why would their service go out of its way to NOT be seen as adding value to a coin?

 

Damage control comes to mind.

The article seems to have convincing data.

 

I thought of the best one liner but it's not 50s TV safe, which is a bummer. It would put this debate about slabbed/CAC vs raw to bed. :yes:

 

You can PM me with it.

 

OMG, this is the most anti-TPG coin forum in the history of coin forums. If you are taking the term "raw" as derogatory, then you really need some help. What term would you like people to use? It is simply a term to differentiate the unslabbed from the slabbed. There is no malicious intent, only your paranoia. Nobody is attacking you or your coins! You are the one who is on the crusade against anything in plastic and anybody who buys plastic.

Furthermore, buying graded coins has not lessened the average collector's ability to grade coins. That is another fallacy that you continue to propagate with absolutely no evidence to support your claim in your attempt to disparage the TPG's. There were "lazy" collectors before the TPG's and there are "lazy" collectors now. You want us to believe that there are people who would spend the time to learn how to grade if the TPG's didn't exist but refuse to learn how to grade because the TPG's already do it for them. I'm not buying it. There are people who find the educational aspect of the hobby interesting and want to learn as much as they can along the way. There are also people who just want to spend money and collect shiny pieces of metal because they like them and are not intrigued by the intricacies or history of the hobby. The existence of the TPG's does not move collectors from one group to another.

 

I think that people generally resist change.

 

I don't think it has to do with resisting change, but rather accepting the fact that since there is inconsistency between the TPGs; specifically the lack of universal grading standards, along with the lack of a higher degree of accuracy in the TPGs grading.

If a coin exhibits the criteria for a grade of 64 it should receive a 64 grade. But since the TPGs allow some sliding up to the next grade, or even a partial slide up, this supports an inconsistent service.

 

rotflol

 

With the emergence of the TPGs and their style of so-called "market grading" the necessity of collectors to learn how to condition-grade coins is gone. That much, one can categorically say. In as much as the capacity to appreciate coins relates directly to the capacity to understand the condition-grades of the coins, and, as the latter, the condition-grade, is the paramount criterion in every hobby, so, too, one might say, were the guts ripped right out of this hobby. And, that's unfortunate.

 

TPG is Now money making machines Plus they add the attribution Fee, Now the CAC greenbeans sticker then later on green becomes ORANGE * RED ** Purple*** Then GOLD with asterisk. I know new breed of collectors now is being ripped off with the grade of MS 70 and Proof 70 on a modern coin that will not be Valuable in the FUTURE..Just my Honest Opinion.