1965-67 SMS Cameo

I'm currently trying to compile a list of "collecting goals" for myself. I think I can safely do that now that I finally am finished with school and working. Rather than wishing and hoping...I can now begin to search and collect.

One project I have always wanted to work on was to assemble the three Special Mint Sets from 1965-67 with cameo coins. I know these coins were produced instead of proofs during these years...but some sets did contain cameo coins. I think with a little time, a nice collection of graded cameo coins could be assembled.

My understanding is, that 1965 was plagued with the lowest quality coins...so there are fewer cameo coins in existence. Does anyone know if that is true? I have never owned a single SMS coin...but I have always liked them. Does this seem like a reasonable project?

 

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I also was led to beleive that a 65 cameo is by far the hardest to find. That's a nice little set you are trying to put together. Good luck! looking forward to seeing the progress.

These are the closest I have, and will most likely not carry a cameo designation.

 

I have some nice SMS coins in my complete set and also in slabs.  I think it is somewhat tougher to find a pretty coin in the SMS, as they are neither fish nor fowl, in terms of not being proofs, yet having a higher degree of planchet polishing than ordinary business strikes.  However, one can find nice examples.  Here are my slabbed ones:

 

Absolutely!



SMS MS67CAM Paid $25 for the SMS Set.

 

Sounds fun. I'll guess the cents will be the hard part of this set.

 

There's no question average quality for 1965 was lowest.

I'm not so sure this applies to the finest quality or their incidence however.

 

Is your 1964 a SMS coin? If so Congratulations. Those are very scarce. Your 1966 looks pretty close to cameo. Great looking coin.

 

I checked the NGC pop report and there are actually MS67 UCAMs graded...

1965: 21
1966: 29
1967: 97

 

From what I can tell...1965 is the most challenging and it seems the cents are hard to come by for any year. I think I will focus on CAM and not go for UCAM because they are so expensive.

 

The NGC pop report lists the following for Kennedy Half MS67 CAMs...

1965: 215
1966: 363
1967: 750

...still tough.

 

I wish Bob. Thanks anyway though.
When I hear SMS, I always associate it with 1964-1967. Then I just grabbed images for with cameo(ish) strikes. I am certain it is a proof.

 

No Cameos, though

 

Not the expert for SMS coins, but looking at PCGS price guide, 1965 are the most expensive except for the 1964's. I did not even realize they made SMS's in 64.

BTW, DCAM's are available in some dates, but they are STEEP!

 

I've been slow cooking the 65 to 67 half dollar in CAM 67 set too,, I pulled a 66 CAM ms67 from a set (got lucky).. the 67 CAM ms67 I purchased very recently on the 'bay (very reasonable cost) and they are not too hard to find...
The 65 CAM ms67 is now on my short list... but are harder to find, and steeper.

I also like your idea of sticking with CAM vs. DCAM $$$

 

I'm going to do these coins slabbed only...PCGS or NGC. Does anyone know if either company is stricter when it comes to Cameo coins for moderns? I know there is a difference between the two when it comes to PL and DMPL on Morgans.

 

I can't say. The only thing I can say is based on my experience looking at pics of them on the 'bay for the past 4 months or so, as I shopped for the 67 and 65.... and given the variability in pictures and potential juicing or sharpening, I wouldn't take too much from my opinion. That said, and based on what I've seen in that time span, I'd say that pcgs CAM's are 'slightly' more bold in their cam'ness. All the CAM's I've seen in ngc and pcgs I'd agree 100% are CAM... but a few that I saw in Pcgs CAM holders looked Dcam to me, while none of the ngc's appears to be dcam's to me..... again, that could all be a function of post picture modifications...... but it's the best I can offer.

 

The 1964 SMS coins are extremely rare. Numismatists quibble about the terminology but they are experimental finish coins, business strike dies that were polished heavily and then (IMHO) stamped more than once like proofs, so they show extremely sharp strikes, far more than normal business strikes. All five denominations are known, but the halves are the rarest of the five denominations, with the nickel second-rarest. I have done extensive study of these and have bought and sold two complete five-piece sets in the last 2-3 years plus three singletons and have an 1964 SMS (MS/SP67 PCGS) in my Kennedy Half Registry Set. My 1964 SMS Kennedy is the one depicted on CoinFacts for PCGS #6844 (I need to send it to Todd Pollock someday for a better photo). I believe only 10-15 examples survive of the half, making it one of the rarest coins made in the 20th century.

Current PCGS Populations (I say submissions rather than coins because I know there are numerous crackouts and duplications in these figures. I also exclude a few coins previously certified by NGC because I think most of them by now have crossed to PCGS). These populations have not changed at all in years now, and you seldom seen an example of any denomination at auction:
1964 SMS cent (RD and RB) (PCGS #3283, 3284) 22 submissions
1964 SMS Jefferson nickel (non and FS) (PCGS #4170, 84170) 18 submissions
1964 SMS Roosevelt dime (PCGS #5220) 22 submissions
1964 SMS Washington quarter (PCGS #5974) 28 submissions
1964 SMS Kennedy half (PCGS #6844) 12 submissions

John Dannreuther of PCGS has written of these, "Although the exact source of the Special Mint Set strikings of 1964 coinage is uncertain (most believe they came from the estate of dealer Lester Merkin), they have been trading in the numismatic marketplace since their surfacing in auctions beginning in 1993. Their inclusion as separate varieties is analogous to the separate listing of Satin finish examples in Mint Sets, which were first issued in 2005. Both are striking variations that represent a variation from the normal strikes (hence, PCGS listing them as separate varieties)." But of course the Satin Finish coins are extremely common.

Best Regards,

George

 

OK...thanks Doug.

 

This is my best 1965 Kennedy silver half.