Coin Shop Experience

" . . .Then they hand me a check and tell me that it has to be deposited in my account !! What kinda crook is this ? So I had sold GOLD, took a stranger's check in an out of state place and didn't have the cash to do what I wanted with in the first place ! . . . "

LAst year my brother decided to sell his Franklin Mint (I know) 1oz silver ingots automobile collection I don't remember the weight but it worked out to be several thousands of dollars. Several places in Knoxville, TN
offered almost nothing, then we located a good shop, negotiated a fair price and sold the silver bullion. I wanted cash the dealer insisted on a check. "Sorry, got to pay with a check." Don't remember his explanation. My brother called his bank from the shop and everything worked ok. Maybe it's something B&M shops due. This is contrasted with the many thousand dollars cash transaction I witness at every "Whitman show I attend.


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So, now we've went from "rights" to "feelings".

I didn't say I should be "allowed" to do anything. I'm saying that preventing a person from getting robbed would be worth the possible consequences.

I would most likely be uncomfortable with someone coming into my business and second guessing my practices, but yes, it is within their "rights".

If they were on my property, and they seriously offended me, then I'd ask them to leave. That's how the First Amendment works. They have the "right" to open their mouth, and I have the right to hold what they say against them, and vice versa.

Of course. Why else would I have brought it up?

I wasn't forgetting anything. It seems you are not OK with such things happening, but you would not do anything about it.

I also take issue with your telling me what I do or do not have the right to do. It's one thing to say it isn't acceptable, or it's grounds for being thrown out, but it's quite another thing to say I do not have the right to do something.

Oh no! I might get kicked out of an event I paid $5 to attend. Or, I might get asked to leave a store I didn't pay anything to enter. I an't think of which one I'd regret more...

Seriously? Smoke and Mirrors? Hot shot?

A few times, mostly when I was in the Army. One time I got a refund for a soldier in my squad who bought a used Mustang from a dealer who signed him up for a loan with 19% interest. (Which was higher than the max rate allowed by WA state law) Another time, I got a carnival booth shut down at Ft. Campbell when I figured out he was taking soldiers for hundreds of dollars each with no chance of them winning.

If you're not OK with it, then do something about it. Don't just sit back and allow it to happen, fearful that you might suffer some sort of personal consequence.

As I have said, it's a moral and ethical dilemma. If there wasn't a conflict in choosing which path to take, then it wouldn't be much of a dilemma.

 

I buy a lot of collector coins in this area ( Rapid City, SD) because for slabbed coins (PCGS or NGC) I pay 90% of sheet. If the coin is a key date with no problems and PCGS or NGC graded I pay 100% of gray sheet. It seems that most of the dealers would rather have scrap gold or junk silver than nice collector coins. Jim

 

I agree with this. Right now, some dealers have focused on buying gold at 50% of its value rather than dealing with collector coins. There are some good deals on coins right now due to this.

 

Remember what type of hobby we are in. It's sole basis is money, and money attracks all the wrong types of people as well. So expect to see a lot of questionable ethics and improper conduct in this hobby. And it won't go away and improve over time. Do I like this? No. But you had better have a thick skin because it's going to happen. From CEO"s to flea market sellers, money will influence there morals and conduct, and little will change over time. If there is a place after life, then the penalty will be assessed there. Unfortunately life's battle is within yourself, and the outcome around you will always be a draw. No one will/can change your way of thinking once ingrained in your mind. IMHO.

 

Back to the original topic, my worst B&M experience was walking in to Rust Rare Coins in Salt Lake City with a 1981 S Type 2 Proof Susan B Anthony I'd cherry picked from a set. They offered me $2...so I asked "Isn't it worth a lot more?" So he looked it up in the Red Book (really?) and then confirmed his offer...

 

It all depends on the coin.

There are some coins that even 90% of greysheet is paying too much. There are other coins that you can't even touch at bid...

 

Jason,

Glad it worked out for you, but it still does not make it right. Professional Poker players make a living in that thin slice of life called the edge. Poker is also about making good decisions over and over again, including decisions about your bankroll. Selling $4000 worth of coins for $3000 is always a bad decision and these decisions will catch up to you.

Also, that edge is a much smaller place than that 70/30 win percentage you are speaking of and bad decsions make it even smaller. In fact, taking a 25% hit on your bankroll will guarantee it disapears all together.

Just something to think about,
Mike

 

I thought you never sold anything on E-Bay before? It seems a little disingenuous for you to give E-Bay selling advice with absolutely no E-Bay selling experience.

 

Jason,

Poker is still gambling. You are not playing against the house edge, but unless you are an established professional, the edge is unknown and it is very possible for you to sit in a game, be an underdog, and not even know it. Don't assume that because you know how to play that you are a favorite to win.

The keys to being a successful professional poker player are bankroll management, game selection, and emotional control. 5 years ago, all I had to do was simply show up and win. It is not so easy these days. Many of the fish have busted and don't play anymore. Many more fish have dropped down in limits. And the remaining fish have improved their poker skills. What I am saying is that all of the live games in Atlantic City have gotten much tougher over the last few years. If you don't play here very often, you might not notice right away.

Okay, gotta go to work. My $20/$40 LH seat is waiting.

Paul

 

good times.

 

Jason my friend,

I tried to be subtle, as did Paul, but some folks just really need to be hit over the head by a 2x4.
First off, My credentials. I don't play much any more, but I have played over 100,000 hands of poker. Most of it was on line, but a lot was live. I used poker tracker to track the on-line play, so I know my figures are accurate. The first thing I can tell with the experience of 100,000 hands in the rear view mirror, is judging by your talk, I know for a fact is you have not played 100,000 hands, in fact not anywhere close.
Now I am not saying I am a great poker player, Because I am not, but I do have a positive win rate. It just is no where near good enough to earn a living. The truth is I could make more money at Walmart.

Now for the part that will be hard for you to swallow. I have no idea if you wear sun glasses or not, but right now, you ARE a FISH. It is possible that with you have a good feel for the game and can become a good player, but you are not there.

How do I know:

1) You mis managed you bankroll and that is very important for a poker player. Bad bankroll management = FISH
2) You blamed you losses in AC because you were playing with Nit Wits and walked away from the table. That is the kind of game you WANT to be in. Bad game selection = FISH
3) You bragged about you skill at the table from a single session. You confused a good run of cards with skill and that =FISH. Skill is measured over the long term.
4) You claimed a 70 % win rate which is impossible, so I have to conclude you do not know your win rate. A good player knows his win rate. A player who does not = FISH

I am sure you will not like this post, but my hope is you will learn from it, but either way I am sure you will remember it.

Best of luck to ya.
Mike

 

Lets go back to the scenario described by medoraman... the person selling was lowballed at a coin SHOW. Therefore, it is safe to assume that they were surrounded by many other dealers yet still CHOSE to sell for the money offered. No matter how unfair the offer was, the fact is that this person either ignored or was too lazy to walk a few feet and offer elsewhere. I've more important things to do than try and save someone that lazy and/or stupid from themselves. It works both ways... if I was close enough to see what this person had, and was close enough to drop my business to save them, they were also close enough to walk to me and its as simple as that.

 

There are market forces, but there is no need to describe him as lazy or stupid.

 

Congrats. That's a handsome ROI.

 

Mike I had to edit this because I realized that you like coins and you like poker.

100k hands though? That is less than 1 year of 4 tabling 5 days a week. Check the figures yourself. 100k/ 260 (days) = only 384 hands a day. If you are 4 tabling you are only seeing 96 hands per table per session. So less than 3 hours of playing time per day.

Heavy hitter my friend.

 

Ah, you took that better than I thought. Anyway, you are right, back to coins. BTW, 67% ROI on the coins you sold is great even if you did not sell under the best circumstances. Congrats on that.

Mike

 

I have been in shops where the owner has bragged about a score, one where he offered what he knew was a ridiculous offer and got the coin, I do not know why a dealer would brag to me about taking advantage of someone, I just chalk it up to life warning me. Funny sometimes how people will tell you things that in a more ethical time they would be ashamed to admit.

When that happens it tells me to not trust any advice, grading, or sure things or great deals they might come up with, just stick to what (little) I know.

 

I think most of us have encountered dealers like that.

I don't deal with those anymore. And as others invariably come along, they get scratched off the list too. They are real easy to spot too. I dealt with a real tool at the Whitman show this last time... got what I wanted, but I won't be dealing with him anymore.

That said, I'm happy to say that in my experience, most are scrupulous and are just like anyone else -- they just want to make a fair deal.

 

I've watched sellers get lowballed in a B&M setting before, and was glad to see them decline the offer and walk out the door.

In a show setting I would not fault someone for saying something discreetly that might alert the victim. I would liken it to a Noisy Withdrawal" in an attorney client situation. Like in the above described scenario at the coin show, the lawyer is not "suppose" to foil the bad actor client. However, the lawyer is allowed to make a noisy withdrawal from the representation if he feels he cannot ethically continue the representation. That's what I'd do here. I'd say "wow, you have a full set of Peace dollars? Those are worth at least $25 apiece, maybe more if you have a 1921, 1928 and 1934S." Then walk away.

What's the dealer going to do? Nothing. Plus, no Bourse chairman is going to kick you out for saying something innocent and supportive like that. In fact, they want the public talking positive of the shows just as much as they want happy dealers.