Featured Recycled Article No. 1: Coin Show Etiquette

Funny, that. I just went back and re-read the first page of the thread, and yours was clearly the first post that "went negative". TheCoinGeezer disagreed with one of Charmy's points, but he did so civilly, not sarcastically.

When I find something offensive, but most other people don't, I re-examine my own attitude. Sometimes I learn that I'm the one who needs an attitude adjustment.

 

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Scott.
You are right. You should just stick with Ebay.
Shows and dealing with folks face to face would be of little help to you.

 

I just want to say for the benefit of all that I have dealt with Charmy and found the experience excellent in every respect.
I didn't dump lots of stuff on the counter, only one small case that contained the items I was selling, or had already purchased, and my notes.
I had something to offer as trade toward what I wanted and she gave me the price I asked. I was a little high if I was selling, but for trading she agreed to the value without haggling over it.
I asked about 2 specific coins I was shopping for from a list I had prepared.
She showed me 2 coins that were right in the grade and value range that I asked about. Clearly she listened and understood what I was looking for. She pointed out that one to the coins had a "problem" and was very upfront and honest about what she was selling. There were prices written on the flips they were in. It was a fair price. Because the price was written I knew she had not made up a higher price because of my trade value.
I paid cash.
I left feeling like I had an excellent, professional exchange. There was a little bit of "negotiating" because of the trade items, but I never got a sense that Charmy was the least bit offended by it, and it was a brief, easy part of the exchange, it was not a haggle, and was certainly not argumentative. I walked away with 2 nice coins for my type set and a sense that I would love to do business again.
I grow dates and other produce and sell these things at farmers markets, so I can see this from both sides. Sometimes people ask about discounts, offer less, or want a deal. I do not discount small purchases, but I offer that if they want a larger size or different product, well, you get the idea. I try to help them and most are good with the choices I offer. Then there are the ones that just want to haggle. If its because of the part of the world they came from where everything is negotiated, I can understand to some extent. But some just want to argue and others just want the feeling of power it gives them to "win". I find both of these last two offensive and I NEVER budge on price with this sort. The ones who just haggle because of culture, I work with them in a gentle way, and try to offer them a choice rather than a discount.
OK dates are different that coins, but it still stands to reason that the same types of folks are coin buyers. The ones who's negotiation is simply an inquiry, polite and professional, and then there's the ones who want to argue, battle, and often rudely so.
Those of you who are in sales, should know exactly what I mean. One of the best sales people of all time, Zig Ziggler, use to say look at your accounts every year and drop the bottom 10%. Well, I may only drop 2% but the tactic is sound. I add to that; I give myself 2 per year, 2 people that I just say, go away I don't want or need your business. Most years I don't use 2, but some years I do use one. Its ironic that half the ones who pushed me that far came back later and actually apologized and became good (and reasonable) customers.
Well... I rant.
Half of Charmy's list, if you look at it closely, is for the benefit of the other customers as much as it is for her as a dealer. Not covering the display with too much 'stuff', not monopolizing the space or her time. These things benefit the other customers as much as her. The other half, coming prepared, being aware of behavior that may seem suspicious and put the dealer on the defensive just makes sense and help the buyer have a good experiance.
Some people just don't like rules, no mater how much good sense they make. They bristle and cut their nose off to spite their face.
Some people just like to argue, when they think they are negotiating.
Some people are just rude and don't care.
Others are rude and oblivious.
Some are even rude and want to be.
In my experience, being polite and courteous is never out of fashion and is most always appriciated. but you can't please every one.
Thanks Charmy for your helpful suggestions. You are one of the good ones in my book.

 

Oh, and singing a little 'Neil' can't hurt!
~~Red red wine, go to my head, make me forget .... that awful customer ! ~~ lol

 

Then keep on walkin' hot shot.

Who are you to insult the OP for simply trying to educate average and (as in many cases here) new collectors? What have you done to help anyone? At least she tried. Everything on the OP's list are excellent and experienced suggestions that should be taken at face value. Do you really think she or any other established dealer needs someone who thinks that they (for whatever reason) are somehow entitled to buy at their price, and if they cannot, it's all the "idiot dealers" fault and/or stupidity? While there is nothing wrong with making an offer, if refused and you think the same coin can be had elsewhere for less, go buy it instead of complaining.

Have you ever invested your blood, sweat, and tears into locating quality material to offer to potential customers, then have to deal with some obstinate schmuck who thinks that, just because he has a CDN or claims to be a "dealer", he somehow deserves to buy at his price? If not, maybe you should try it sometime.. loads of fun and you may develop a few found respect for the person on the other side of the table. No one will argue the fact that some dealers are not the nicest of people, but to act as if all are trash is ridiculous. If you want to collect common dreck, its everywhere so have at it. However, if you want quality, especially if collecting a not-so-common type or a type where quality is tough, a good dealer can be more of a benefit than many seem to realize. While I do not know the OP, it only takes a few seconds to look at her site and see that she has a specialty, a passion, and a knowledge of said specialty that fly-by-night "dealers" will not have. Do you realize that someone like the OP will almost always have access to better coins than the average generalized coin dealer? Has it occurred to you that many of the dealers you so clearly despise also sell on ebay? Regardless of what you want to fancy yourself as being, the fact remains that the only dealer who needs to cater to someone like you is a dreck dealer, and it is as simple as that.


OP,

Please allow me to respectfully add to your suggestion....

"-Don’t choose the highest quality coins in a dealer’s case and then expect to pay a wholesale price – dealers usually have to pay strong prices to acquire quality pieces, so don’t insult them by choosing their best coins and wanting to buy them at wholesale or Grey Sheet prices."

Once an initial offer is made, if it is declined or countered and you do not like it, let it go.. do not push or argue. Thank them for their time and walk away. If you can buy the same coin of the same quality elsewhere, do the legwork and find it yourself. Don't expect a dealer to have to do the work and not be compensated for it. If you are not willing to pay, this is your decision and not always the dealer who is being unreasonable. If the coin is common and the dealer wants too much, move on... this is not rocket science. Respect begets respect and attitude begets attitude... this works both ways.

Of course... because you can add nothing of substance, the insults fly. Maybe I should attach a photo of a crying baby for you?

 

Where would I find a schedule of coin shows on the west coast?

PennyLady, great advice. Thanks for the contribution.

 

Well said sir!

 

Absent a situation where a price is too good to be true or where I have asked the dealer to find me a coin, I always ask if that is their best price. Especially at shows or out of town coin shops where I don't know the dealer. Doing otherwise is leaving money on the table. If the dealer is firm on their price, I don't get offended or attempt to escalate the discussion (and I certainly don't criticize the dealer or the coin), I just decide whether to take it or leave it at that price.

 

In a desperate attempt to drag this train wreck back on topic :too-funny:

I humbly suggest the following, under the heading of "Preparing for the Show"

Dealers, please be prepared to conduct business as soon as the doors open.

"I think I have one, give me a few minutes to get everything set up here, or come back by later..."

Um. No. It is not my job to "give you a few minutes"...that's the show organizer's job. It is further YOUR job to take advantage of the setup time. I have done my part by getting up at the appropriate time, making the appropriate arrangements, and driving the necessary distance to be at your table early, in the hope of finding the best coins still available.

So please, dealers...if the show begins at 8am, be ready to do business at 8 am.

 

Good words, Greg. Also, I know that dealers can pack up and go home early, but for a number of people coming to a show that is, say from 10 - 4, and they come at 1:30 and find many of the dealers already packing out of there....what is the purpose of that? Indicates to me that many dealers are judging by the AM time whether it's worth it to stay. Not everyone can get to the show at 10am, and if they do, many times the tables are so crowded that (remember etiquette) it's hard to see that dealer's stuff if others are there.


So to add to what dealers should do is: Prepare to stay at the show for the duration, and see what steps you can take to make it easy for several people to be at your booth without the customers feeling that they are not worth it to be there.

 

Just wanted to add and ask. Did anyone here besides Charmy did any shows as a dealer? Well its not as easy as most people think.

I've done shows and although its not coins I know the pressure. And there are plenty of customers that do things that annoy you. The majority of them are nice but there are always a few that gives you problems. But I think the best advice would be to treat others the way you want to be treated. And to see things from the other side.

 

So if someone is trying to sell a coin to you, and you are haggling over the price, you won't point out what's wrong with the coin, to justify your price?

 

they will do that, but you cant. its bad etiquette.

 

If I am buying a coin from a collector and notice that it has a problem I will usually just pass unless they ask me why, then I will tell them about the flaw. I don't prefer to buy flawed coins so will not use that flaw to negotiate the price.

When selling a coin, I not only will point out a scratch or cleaning on a coin but I write it on the flip. The point is that criticing a coin you want to buy is not going to help in negotiating for a lower price.

 

I can attest to that. I bought a 1906 Indian Head cent from Charmy down at FUN this past January and while I was examining it, she was quick to point out a minor flaw that I had missed........

 

dittos, other than just googling it, is there a news site or an association or something like that where they keep a list posted for the public?

 

I attend most west coast shows and have a show schedule on my website. Also Gary Beedon has an excellent website that contains all California coin shows and some Nevada ones too. I'm traveling right now and am using my BB so I don't have a link to his websitew but you can google his name and it should come up.

Edited to add Beedon's coin show website: http://home.earthlink.net/~beedon/calshows.htm

 

I like the way Green summed it up.

 

So what if a good-looking guy, who approaches your table with a fresh Starbucks Latte and a couple of Ferrero Rocher chocolates and gives them to you... does that make the haggle easier??

As a part-time dealer myself at shows north of the border, you have to understand that what The Penny Lady is doing here, is trying to ensure there is a better, positive communication and relationship between you (the collector) and a dealer. A simple exercise I like to do, is to ask difficult customers to put themselves in my shoes, and ask them what would they do. Likewise, when selling a coin, I try to think like a coin collector. There are always difficult customers who want something for nothing - and there are dealers whom I never buy anything from - you reap what you sow...

I applaud The Penny Lady for not only having an online presence in coin forums, but also taking the time to educate newer collectors on coin show etiquette. There are very, very few coin dealers who do this, and most certainly do not have skin thick enough to answer and reply to online criticism.

Lastly, these were suggestions, not rules. You take what you want from that list...

 

I don't understand the anger of some people... wouldn't you want to know what annoys your dealer? If I'm going to be spending a good amount of money on this hobby, then why wouldn't I want this information? Sure, some of it might not help in getting a discount, but it certainly won't hurt.