Auctions are a double edged sword.

I am willing to start this thread on this note: I'm not complaining, but seeking opinions.

I don't mind spending a few dollars extra on an item at at auction. I've sat there for 2 hours, and a few bucks means not going home empty handed.

However, there is a line drawn, I am not going to give $17.50 for a junk Franklin half dollar. I can get one from the B&M coin shop for $12.

Sure, I might pay $14 for one, but $17.50 is excessive.

But here is the catch 22.

If I go to an auction, I usually end up paying more, but if I don't go, those people who outbid me, now get the coin cheaper, and I don't get any coins.

So if I show up, I now have to pay more, if I don't, I get nothing.

So now I have an idea.

I am a firm believer in "fair share". People usually get their fair share of coins at auctions, but by making others pay for them.

If I run people up, I made them pay more. I don't really feel right doing that. Then if I want something, I have to pay more. In the end, do you really win? Not really.

My idea is to befriend people. Get to know the common buyers at auctions.

If people are willing to share, then they will allow me to buy a few items, they will not bid against me on it. If they want a few items, I will not bid against them on it.

That way, each person gets a "fair share" at a lower price, without fighting over it.

Now you may be wondering, how will this work for me?

Well let's say you go to an auction, and there are 30 liberty nickels. Common ones, all worth about the same price.

Let's say 3 people are interested in them.

They sell them each at a time. Buyer 1 bids 2 dollars. Buyer 2 bids 5.

Buyer 3, now bids 8 dollars. This is the realistic price they are worth (just a figure).

Buyer 3 takes all nickels at 8 dollars each. Buyer 1 and 2 are now empty handed.

But, let's apply my idea to this.

Buyer 1, 2 and 3, know each other. They each agree they want 10 nickels. They each bid 2 dollars, and each person takes home 10, at 2 dollars each.

Each buyer got something, each buyer paid less.

Buyer 3 may have wanted more, but by allowing others to take "their fair share", he was now going home with 10 nickels bought for 2 dollars each.

If buyer 3 wanted all the nickels, as going by the previous scenario, he would of paid 8 dollars each for them.

However by my idea, he got only 1/3 the amount he wanted, but he got them cheaper too.


This is my idea anyway. Why should people end up fighting over stuff, and over paying?

 

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collusion

 

haven't we had this discussion before? With the same op? ..... See gbroke's post above.

 

Yes I've talked about this before.

I used to get mad at myself for people constantly outbidding me. If I cannot acquire something for less or equal to what I can buy it for on eBay, or a B&M, it make no sense to foolishly overpay.

It never used to be that way. Coins always brought a fair amount. In other words they brought what they were worth.

But since the past 2-3 years, they bring a lot more.

Instead of getting mad at myself, I want to find a way to actually go to an auction, and not come home empty handed, or paying twice actual value for something.

I love coin auctions. I actually get to hold and closely examine a coin, instead of buying a coin based on a picture taken with a barbie digital camera.

 

My immediate reaction

 

Let me ask you this....

If you had consigned the items to be sold at auction, and you were there watching, and you saw several people befriend each other, agreeing to bid and not bid so that all those people got something,and no one "overpaid" or took home all the "spoils", but your items were sold at a low bid... therefore you were left holding the bag as your share of what you consigned was a pittance, and possibly you got less than what you had paid for the items. What would you think of your enterprise then? If you knew that in a free market, with several people interested in the item, that without collusion, there would be a fair price paid for the item in most cases?

I'll be willing to conclude that if the shoe was on the other foot, you'd be upset.

If you have morals, you will not practice collusion with others. And if you do go to auctions and come home with nothing because someone else wanted to pay more than you did, well, take that as the learning experience it is. Either be willing to put up more or be happy you came away within your limits.

Not everything will be yours that you see at auction or elsewise.'


And perhaps, those people who got the items for the price they were "overpaying" --- according to you --- are quite comfortable with that price and do not feel they overpaid. IMO, you will not know, because you have already determined that people who outbid you on items you want "overpay" when they win.

 

A lot of them are upset that they had to outbid others many dollars over actual value in order to obtain just a few coins.

That's the problem. Colluding is bad for the seller, good for the buyer.

Stiff competition is good for the seller, bad for the buyer. There needs to be a line drawn.

All I'm asking is to be able to walk home with a few coins, and paying B&M/eBay prices or just a little more. However this seems harder to do.

I'm not complaining, but seeking a way to make it to my advantage.

I'm not greedy, I'm not a "he who dies with the most toys wins" type of person. I just want a few coins at an auction, and with those, slowly build my collection.

 

Son if you ever came up to me at an auction and suggested that I would make sure you never won a thing :yes:

 

Let me shorten and simplify this for you.

Befriending others at the auction, and striking a deal not to bid against each other, is CHEATING.

If CHEATING becomes widespread, people won't bother trying to sell at auction any more. Therefore, auctioneers and venues will take steps to prevent CHEATING.

If you can buy things cheaper at your LCS, by all means do so. But don't try to get them cheaper by CHEATING.

 

Detecto, you are not entitled to leave with any coins unless you are the highbidder. if you feel they are overpriced walk away. differnt coins are worth differnt amounts to differnt people. get over it.

 

I don't really have any kind of entitlement, however, one person should not be allowed to have it all.

Not trying to get political, but this country is messed up because the top wants to have it all, making the bottom have less. When one has everything, everyone has nothing.

I'm a firm believer in fair share.

Like I said, each person should get a piece of the pie, instead of someone taking the whole thing.

 

Why buy common coins at live auctions at all? Go to any of your local dealers and buy all of that sort of stuff at melt. I reserve live auctions for premium coins. Sometimes I pay more than I wanted to, but if you want the coin, you have to pay the price.

 

Not much hope for you, IMO. Your thought processes and willingness to fudge things to your advantage, with little regard for people --- for you certainly are showing your unwillingness to be fair to others if you're willing to collude as a buyer with others to unfairly deprive a seller of an item --- is juvenile.

I think you having a good talk with grown ups who have morals and can impart them to you would be a good idea.

There is something to be said in being a stand-up guy (works for girls, too) in life. People tend to know they can trust you if they see that you don't engage in questionable behavior when it suits you.

 

Well then fork over the money at auctions. If those people what to overpay for coins, then let them. Instead you should be consigning coins to that auction house.

 

EUREKA!:dead-horse::hail:

 

You should stage a occupy movement at your local coin shop, because its not fair other people who work hard can buy more coins than you.

 

Colluding is not going to ruin a seller. I'm talking about just a few people, not everyone. If several people quit bidding against each other, then it will lower prices back to normal.

Measures need to be taken when things become like this. Right now it's out of whack. Higher than normal prices are good for sellers, but bad for buyers. Yes I agree colluding would hurt the seller, but not on a small scale, and between a few people.

All going back to my principle of fair share. Colluding hurts the seller, higher than normal prices hurt the buyers.

Right now the situation is higher than normal prices, there needs to be a way to properly get things back to normal, so buyers can buy a fair prices, and sellers get a fair amount for their stuff.

 

The bidders don't care. They feel that they are buying at a comfortable level. Why should you demand them for less than someone in the fair market is willing to pay? Also, there are millions of trillions of coins left in the world.