remove you CAC sticker Month

If you collect a fee you are breaking SEC regulations...plain and simple. All Bonds and Stocks need to be done by prospectus.

 

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Collectible coins are not stocks and bonds with associated income, costs, and projected earnings. The coin market is not regulated.

A coin grade is not even in anyway itself comparable to a credit rating. A coin grade is fixed and atomic, simply an observation of its state of conservation on a given scale. The grade isn't variable and dependent on unknown factors from independent actors or market conditions (gradeflation and net-grading aside, I mean that a grade isn't going to change because of the economy of China, for example, or because there was a drought in California).

The process is totally different. Coin grading is something that is immediately visible. You have all the information you need right there in the coin itself. All you need is the skill to grade it properly and you can do the same job the TPGs and CAC do. Rating the creditworthiness of a company or organization is far more complicated and opaque with infinite more factors to consider, incomes, costs, debt, market projections, etc.

However, even in the world of stocks and bonds, there are multiple credit rating agencies and many times institutions require a fund/bond/stock to have multiple ratings before considering it. There is no law stating that you can't agree or disagree with a rating. There are regulations in place to stop conflicts of interest, both from issuers wanting higher ratings and from competitors wanting lower ratings. Neither of those situations are relevant to coin collecting, TPGs or CAC.

 

"Collectible coins are not stocks and bonds with associated income, costs, and projected earnings. The coin market is not regulated."

Actually it is regulated. The ANA; the PNG; the grading services; all the state regulations as well as interstate commerce laws.

When companies in the past have made the argument that grading is subjective, "no one knows" etc., they have lost in court.

"Romano and Kearney's defense attorneys maintained that their clients operated in good faith, and, in defense attorney's Bachner's words, there were "reasonable doubts all over the place" about the value grades of the coins."
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/pair-convicted-in-coin-swindle-1.2954791

 

The coin market is not regulated like stocks and bonds.

1. The ANA and PNG only have (limited) power over dealers. They don't regulate the "coin market" in any way imaginable. "State regulations?" Are you serious? There is no "state regulation" over the coin market specifically. "Inter-state commerce laws" apply to everything. There are the usual regulations on businesses, but that is not regulating "the coin market" any more than regulating the "pincushion market".

2. That case you linked to could just as easily have said "cars" instead of coins. There is no mention of anything being graded by a TPG there, and these peoples' intent was solely to deceive. They used very high-pressure tactics to sell cheap coins for false high prices. That has nothing to do with coin grading at all.

No one has ever said coin grading was purely objective. Not even the credit rating agencies say their ratings are purely objective, they call them "opinions".

 

When ebay said that ANACS would not be permitted to be given parity with NGC and PCGS graded coins on their site unless they came up to speed that wasn't "regulation"?

Regulation:

[h=2]Definition of REGULATION[/h]1
: the act of regulating : the state of being regulated

2
a: an authoritative rule dealing with details or procedure <safety regulations> b: a rule or order issued by an executive authority or regulatory agency of a government and having the force of law



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/regulation

 

I can't believe you're being serious with this. ebay is an independent, private auction company. They're free to make rules about how auctions are run on their site. That's not "regulating the coin market", that's "ebay regulating ebay.com". ANACS could still be sold on ebay, you just couldn't mention ANACS or their grade in the title, until ANACS put their certification lookups online. And even if ANACS hadn't complied with ebay's requirement, ANACS could still be sold on the site as well as anywhere else.

That is simply "ebay regulating ebay.com", not any kind of "coin market regulation". Please.

 

No.

Any increased price is up to the seller, as they want higher prices for coins not worth those higher prices, but for the fact it's slabbed and stickered.

Take the fluff away, and you'll find a more acceptable value of the coin.

 

Not so fast my friend....the "increased price" is up to the buyer.

 

Most collectors are able to grade based on set standards from their knowledge of different series. There are still a large number not concerned with a quick flip for profit, but still collect for the pleasure and passion of collecting.

Which goes to say there's not much confidence in the TPG's opinion on grade if there is reliance on the sticker, which is an opinion as well.

I don't go out my way to buy coins slabbed by any of the top tier TPGs. And one with a CAC sticker, forgetaboutit.

It always has been, currently is, and always will be.

Key part of that statement.

Differing opinions. Nothing universal that ALL TPGs follow.

 

Increased asking prices, are up to the seller.

The prices paid, are the buyer's end.

 

In an auction, the price is up to the buyer. In a straight sale, it's up to the buyer to accept the price or not at the asking price.

Nothing is stopping a seller from asking inflated prices for a non-slabbed or stickered coin, it happens all the time.

 

Auctions, yes that would be a correct statement not withstanding the starting bid the seller places on the auction.

BIN, no.

Coin Show, no.

When you say stickered, you are referring to CAC or price sticker?

CAC does not sticker raw unslabbed coins.

 

Yes for BIN, yes for coin show, yes for coin shop: for a set-price sale, it is completely up to the buyer to accept the asking price or not. If no buyer purchases the item, the seller will eventually have to lower the price if he wants to sell it.

I'm obviously referring to CAC stickers.

Seller all the time ask inflated prices on totally raw coins, sellers all the time ask inflated prices on slabbed coins without CAC stickers, sellers all the time ask inflated prices on slabbed coins with CAC stickers. The only difference is that a slabbed coin has a higher chance of a buyer feeling more confidence about the coin so as to pay the asking price, and that confidence increases with the CAC sticker.

 

Not in writing they don't. But by all means, if you want to run that experiment, go write ahead.

Brokerage firms write position papers also reviewed by the SEC. I would suggest you do like what CAC does with stocks or bonds. List all SP or Merry l Lynch recommendation and put green and gold stars on them and see if your not prosecuted.

Everything. See that is the problem. After 800 years of market development and economics, we still have the wild west in coin trading without any of the protections that 800 plus years of market research and and hard learned experience is still ignored and basic fraud is ripe throughout the business.

 

BUncirculated, Let me ask you a hypothetical question, if I might...

You are looking for a coin for your collection, and have set aside $200 for the coin. You find three examples. Let's call them A, B, and C.

A is raw, graded by the seller 65, and is priced at $100. It is the least desirable of the three to you.

B is in a PCGS slab graded 65, and it is priced at $125. It is in the middle of the three coins, quality wise.

C is in a PCGS slab with a CAC sticker and is graded 65. It is priced at $150, and is it is the most desirable of the three coins to you.

Which do you buy and why?

 

Now that would be a GREAT oppurtunity to buy a CAC sticker slab and to rip off the sticker!

 

Accepting the price is not setting the price. The seller sets what price they want to ask for the item, not the buyer. The buyer pays it, or moves on, or they try and haggle it with the seller.

As the asking price is inflated as well.

 

Then you're paying a premium...to rip off a sticker...that could assist you in making more money when selling the coin.

Your logic makes no sense.