remove you CAC sticker Month

How is that fraud? Where's the deception?

 

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Because it is. If they don't warp the market then they have no business model. It is EXPRESSLY illegal in the stock market. The more they can warp the market the more money they make.

 

That's not an explanation, nor does it make any sense. How is CAC saying that they find the coin to be of the top 2/3rd quality for the stated grade, according to CAC's standard, fraudulent? How is that illegal? It would therefore be just as illegal for the original TPG to give a grade to the coin.

Also: how are they making more money? They charge $10-$12.50 only for the coins they sticker.

 

No you don't. Where do you pull this hogwash from?

 

The reason you can't see how is because you are so incorrect it's hard to fathom. But rest assured, you are wrong.

 

Yes - it is an explanation. You have to reread it now until you understand it. ANd no, it is completely different then what the TPGers do. They grade coins. The impact on the market is either up or down, it doesn't matter. They get PAID to grade coins. CAC gets paid to because they create uncertainty in the TPGs results and benefit from that uncertainty.

 

What I don't understand is...if you are so opposed to CAC, why not use ignore their coins and services? Why do you so badly need validation in your beliefs that you must convince everyone else that CAC is a fraud? If you believe this, why not just go with it and allow everyone else to believe what they want?

 

Everyone already knows there is uncertainty in the TPG opinion. That's why the TPGs themselves add a "+" designation. That's why people play the crack-out game and resubmit over and over.

How is the "impact on the market" of a CAC sticker something besides "up or down"? How is it different from someone paying a respected coin dealer $10 for an opinion on a coin the dealer has seen in-hand but the customer has not?

If your assertion that CAC grades grades only is true, then it should be possible to receive a sticker on a slab with no coin, right? If not, then the coin is required - why? Because they evaluate the coin along with the grade, that's the whole point.

 

I should talk with the doctors where I work. They offer second opinions.

I wonder if they're diagnosing the diagnosis or the illness.

 

The uncertainty is caused by the TPGs, that's why they have a regrade service.
I use it regularly, got 5 being regraded now.

 

I think this is absolutely crazy. You don't like CAC coins? Great.. don't buy em... Leave more for me.

What's next? Take your money out of your pocket and burn it month?

 

It pains me to agree with Doug, but I have to in this case. BTW Doug, from what I have seen, you are much more conservative in your grading than JA and the CAC.

 

Yes they do create the uncertainty. And someone can come along and cast doubt on CAC as we have here, and exploit THAT uncertainty and so on, which is why it is called perpetual fear, because there is no bottom to it. Prior to a coin being grade, the consumer is uncertain completely and at the mercy, historically speaking, of the primary sell, in this case the coin dealer. Th deal exploits the uncertainty to funge grading and increase profits. The third party grader evaluates a coin (or a stock or a car) without being directly involved with the transaction thereby ALWAYs decreasing uncertainty. Any affect it has on the market (which has largely been to suppress prices) is inadvertent.

CAC reduces the certainty by casting a shadow on the TPGs opinion without giving their own grade. That reduces certainty in the demand part of the market, and drives it's own profitability based on exploiting that fear. It is pertetual because CAC is does not have primary responsibility for the grade. The are grading and exploiting fear in the graders. then the next party can exploit CAC uncertainty, creating a new market for themselves and so on. The result is a market bubble, not based on coin grade or soundness of a stock, but on the fear of the graders errors, which EVERYONE makes.

That drives the market up in costs ONLY becuase CAC has no business model otherwise. It the coin doesn't become more valuable with the sticker, nobody would do it. It is that simple. All of this is expressly illegal in Stocks.

You can't come out and say that Standard and Poors misgraded a stock or bond! You can make your own analysis and put it in writing. But you can't say, SP did a bad job judging this stock and the Stock has more value or less value. You can say, based on our assement we think the stock is able to move in the market up or down.

Now I know this is not the first time I explained this. You can accept it or not but this is straight up foundation and proven market behaviors.

 

1. The TPG grade reduces uncertaintly, but it still exists. See re-grading services, see crack-out game, see "+" designation.
2. CAC reduces the uncertainty on the TPG grade even more by stating that the coin is within the top 2/3rds of the grade level.

There is nothing illegal or fraudulent in the service CAC offers that clearly has demand already present in the market. Your comments about the stock market aren't based in fact nor do they make sense.

 

Funny, I thought that was Jim Cramer's job!

 

Well, there are things the TPGs do that can stand some scrutenty as well....no doubt.

 

The uncertainty will always exist because coin grading is ultimately a subjective process at some level. You might be able to reach a certain level of consensus, but there will always be a range of variability.

Since it is possible, and everyone knows it, that you can have 5 coins of the same accurately graded level, and rank them in order of quality, CAC tries to reduce the uncertainty of where a given coin falls in a range within a given grade level. MS65.0-MS65.3 = no sticker; MS65.4-MS65.9 = green sticker.

This reduction in uncertainty is why people are more willing to buy or even pay a little extra for a coin with a CAC sticker. Having a second opinion reduces uncertainty more than having just one opinion (e.g. the TPG grade alone).

If TPGs used a more fine-grained scale and were more reliable, then CAC wouldn't have a market in which to exist. CAC exists only because of the already-existing uncertainty in TPG grades. People are willing to pay more for the reduced uncertainty, especially for internet and remote purchases.

 

Resolving that uncertainty MUST remain with the soul providence of the buyer.

 

However, you; and others, are basing that on the accuracy being 100% when in fact it is not. You have to remember that the grading of coins is not only subjective, but the grades given by the TPGs are opinions only.

CAC does one of two things:

1.) Agree with the grade opinion of the TPG.

2.) Disagree with the grade opinion of the TPG.

How much uncertainty is there when the submitter disagrees with the TPG's grade opinion? And how many times do we here at CT, and other numismatic forums, the disagreement, and disappointment, of the submitter(s) in the TPG's opinion?