Questionable Authenticity = Fake? (PCGS)

I'm pretty sure l'm rusting on arrogance but I can never
hit it with the WD-40.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I'd guess the 1877 was questionable as it lacks the shallow N on the reverse. I'd stay away from it myself if I saw it up for bidding or for sale.

 

I'm pretty sure l'm rusting on arrogance but I can never
hit it with the WD-40.

 

They both look painted to me or like they are fakes with some sort of finish added to them.

 

JP, where did you get the coins?

 

Don't worry. If these are indeed fake, you wont see them up for sale. Maybe for giveaway, but not for sale. My integrity is more valuable to me than the money any of these coins may bring.

 

Even if they are fakes?

 

This is true, an expert can't be expected to know, or have the capability of determining everything exactly. However, there is the issue of charging for a service that essentially has not been provided. If they send the coin back unslabbed and definitively describe it as a forgery, then a fee is warranted because they have provided you with information. But, if they send it back as "Questionable", then they have provided you with nothing. What would your reaction be if you took your car to a mechanic, asked him what was wrong with your car, and he said, "I don't know, that'll be $100".

Sending a coin back as Questionable represents a failure on their part. I'm not saying that it is their fault, or that they lack knowledge, but it is a failure nonetheless. I personally believe that the service provider should be expected to eat the costs under these circumstances, but that's just me.

 

Sorry to hear about this.....you take some great pictures!

 

I've been sifting through my grandfather and great grandfather's coin collection that was handed down about 20 years ago for coins that could be worth a fair bit of money. They have been in the attic, and the garage for literally decades. So far I've found: 1890-CC Morgan Tailbar MS63+, 1893-CC Morgan MS64+, 1879-CC Morgan Capped Die MS62, 1955 DDO (91 for questionable color), and the MS64RB 1909-S VDB. These coins were just laying around for years.

 

I'd be upset if I took my car in for diagnosis, paid $100, and didn't get an answer. But if the mechanic said "We tested the alternator, checked all the fluids, did a partial disassembly of the starter motor to look for issues, and spent 4 hours going over it with a magnifying glass" I wouldn't grouse too much about the charge.

 

Did PCGS send it back with a code? I should have come back with a code 86 and your money refunded.

 

NO

Just because you want there to be a ration answer all the time, doesn't mean there is. There are fakes that are so good that it is very difficult if not impossible to tell. Two days ago I posted a blog post on exactly this topic btw you have to think for a moment about how irrational that is. You Doctor is a professional. When there is a complicated case, they ADMIT that from the evidence before them, that they are not sure what is wrong.

Knowing the limits of what you know is EXACT the first thing a professional learns.

 

Just got off the phone with PCGS. Their explanation was that they must designate the coin as "questionable authenticity" due to the fact that if they labeled it as a forgery or fake it would have to then be sent to the authorities. They said the only way they can return the customers coin was to label it as questionable but yes, they are either complete fakes or changed in some way to make them more valuable.

 

If there are fakes that are so good that they are impossible to detect, then it is impossible to truly authenticate any coin. I'm not saying that this is not the case. If you use the same material, the same minting process, and design quality hubs based on the originals, then the product will be identical (and thus impossible to differentiate). I think that this is just the unfortunate state of the hobby. Unless you have bulletproof provenance you can't really be sure, even if the coin is in a slab.

 

This makes sense, as a definitive answer was indirectly provided. In this case, charging a fee is warranted.

 

If there are fakes that are impossible to detect how
do you know they exist?

 

How does anyone who's limited know they are limited?

 

yes and no. In anything where a determination is made, there is precision and accuracy, and both are a form of probability.

Precision is how close a process of measurement when repeated. Accuracy is the ability to repeat the same measurement with the same amount of deviation from the mean of precision. So in any meeasuremnt there is a probabilty factor involed. Often the coin in question as a 99.99% probability of being fake even as an amature can see. Other time it is most closer to 50/50

 

Well, in the words of master forger Mark Hofman (taken from Larson's book "Numismatic Forgery"):

"If I can produce something so correct, so perfect that the experts declare it to be genuine, then for all practical purposes, it is genuine."

It wouldn't bother me in the least to have a fake coin in a "genuine" slab. To me, it would be genuine.