Phasing out Cash

No politics HERE otherwise I'd have a good answer for this. Please do not shut down this thread with politics.

 

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This is something that's been toyed with in Congress.

Stan Lundine, former 34th Congressional District Representative was on the band wagon for something like this.

 

for retail, using the cards are expensive. It is time consuming. ( My hand is killing me) The banks also take theire substantial cut of the profits. I noticed though that in europe they are phasing out the swiping cards and have moved to something else. They will use finger prints soon.

 

Yes, of course. Cashless means no more counterfeiting bills or coins. But there will be fraud. Lots and lots of it.

Or will this new system eliminate all of the vulnerabilities that currently exist in our various forms of electronic currency: Credit Cards, Debit Cards, ATM Cards, RFID Devices, Electronic Banking, etc. Every single one of which has been compromised by idiots who read how to do it on the Internet. Idiots that just happen to own a computer or have access to one, and bought a little bit of hardware online. Keep in mind that these same idiots would never have the competency to produce a passable counterfeit bill or get away with spending it.

But, nevermind all that. Electronic currency is the answer! (But only because it'll probably increase tax revenue and increased revenue to companies like Visa and MasterCard)

 

Nah, my credit and debit cards all still have that magnetic stripe. But its primary purpose these days is to make sure the card is not useless in countries where the chip is still not in use.

As for the fees, yes, that is an issue. But what if it gets harder and harder to get cash? What if you end up paying for it, either because some bank in your neighborhood (which is not "your" bank) charges a withdrawal fee, or because you have to drive quite a bit in order to get to a bank with human tellers?

My fingerprints I have to provide only when I enter the US as a tourist. Cannot use them to pay so far.

Christian

 

But the reverse is a problem. it is difficult to buy coffee with a card that has no chip in earope, especillay if your an American tourist.

I guess that is true. So far most employers have a relationship with a bank that allows for free cashing of checks. But if you have direct deposit, you will indeed need to go to the bank and get cash from the teller.

(and it will be reported to the government)

 

A little food for thought: When they do move to electronic currency, what, if any, role will PM have? Will there be an increase in its use for bartering among people who don't want Big Brother knowing what they're buying/selling?

Forget Big Brother, what about Big Mama? If people don't start using PM for bartering, how would all the married guys on business trips tip strippers? Certainly not with an electronic payment device!

Escaping taxes is not the only purpose of cash. If we move to a strictly electronic only currency system, there will still be a need for some way to pay for items that you don't want someone to know about. Maybe it's all on the up and up. Take me for example. I share EVERYTHING with my wife. We have joint checking, savings, brokerage, credit card, house titles, car titles, motorcycle titles, etc. Everything is in both our names and we have full access to everything. If we move to an all electronic payment system, there will be a paper trail for everything, including presents. Do I really want my wife knowing how much I spent and where, either before her birthday or even after?

The only question is, what will become the preferred physical currency of choice? The coins and paper currenly in circulation (which will have no "official" value once they're demonitized) or PM? Or something else? My guess would be PM.

 

Well, you can get a credit card with such a chip (EMV) in the US too. One of my friends has a Citi AAdvantage Visa card which does have one. But of course, at this time that chip is basically useless in the US, which is why hardly anybody has it. Wait another year or so.

Christian

 

First of all, I don't think that the end of cash is near. It will just be less and less relevant. I mentioned Sweden before; here is article about the situation there: http://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-edges-closer-to-becoming-a-cashless-society-2012-3 That website looks a little odd to me, but this is an AP article which I have read in German elsewhere. So expect cash to be around for some more time.

But there already are lots of places where cash is not accepted as means of payment, and there will be more in the future. Cannot really imagine walking around with gold bars in my wallet, but I am sure that we will also see more "alternative" payment methods, such as the Chiemgauer (Bavaria, DE) or Berkshares (Mass., US). Hard to predict the future but the use of cash will certainly not come to a screeching halt any time soon.

Christian

 

You make a very good point and convincing argument. I mean i agree in the first place because the constitution was created to form a LIMITED government in the first place, which means the population is expected to and has the implied right to shirt government from time to time. This idea is getting washed out. What if everyone who walked in NYC was required to carry a chip and anyone who jay walked would then get mails a $100.00 fine. This is the level of government that we are starting to face.

Ruben

 

I agree. It could happen in my lifetime, but not anytime soon.

 

If the government does away with cash, someone will step in and create scrip. Here's an example: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04/davis-dollars_n_1568517.html

 

How would one deal with his bookie ?

 

How would one tip at strip clubs? :devil:

 

In some cases it still is. I recently tried to buy a coin from the Austrian Mint. Website rejects the transaction. Website all in english, explanation for rejection all in German. Contact the Mint's customer assistance and after some emails back and forth it turns out it was rejected be cause it isn't "3D Secure" and needs to be registered with Mastercard for SecureCode. It's a free service just talk to your bank. So far it's been a week dealing with the Austrian Mint.

Contact my bank. We go round and round, emails back and forth, live chat with their customer service, all boils down to "We have no idea what you are talking about. We've never heard of 3DSecure or SecureCode." Well that was week two. Talk to the Austrian Mint again, there is nothing they can do and all they can suggest is I try their authorized distributor. They are happy to take my card as is, but the cost is 37% higher.

Do some searching online and finally find the MasterCard website for registering for SecureCode. Go to the site, says registering is quick and easy, enter my information to register, and MasterCard rejects my MasterCard because it is not a Visa card.

At this point I give up and go do some more searching for the coin and find a dealer in Germany that is happy to take Paypal and even after paying shipping (Shipping from the mint was free) and a transaction fee for using Paypal, my final bill was three dollars LESS than buying it direct from the Mint.

Card reader at the table.

 

Yes. Complete with paper trail for divorce court.

 

"European authorities are keen to move from traditional coins and banknotes to electronic money for all transactions, including small amounts."
The US already stopped returning the paper check you write. I'm sorry, that is MY check and MY legal document to be tendered for a debt. I want MY check back. Don't think for a minute that the Government can't just up and do this in the stroke of a pen. They can remove all paper money and coin from circulation overnight by declaring that it will no longer be of value. It only has value because they say it does. They can say you have 30 days to deposit all your cash and coin in a federally authorized bank account. After that it is no good and has no value and people would just go along with it. Precious metals will NOT help! There is not enough of it to circulate in any meaningful way for daily transactions. It MIGHT be good for buying the new electronic 'money' but the government could declare that you have to turn in your PM too, just like they did with gold in the past. DO NOT LET THIS HAPPEN FOLKS! YOU DO NOT WANT THIS! That is one reason I would like to see new coin that is, plus-or-minus, somewhere near 20% of face value of the coin, and coin denominations up to $1,000 silver coin.
Not to mention, how reliable are computer data bases, really! You're going to trust your life's work and savings in the form of electronic account in a computer! Not for me thank you. No way.

"This shift will allow tracking of all payments and help align budget deficits."
Nonsense. That will NOT help fix budget deficits. Only choosing NOT to SPEND MORE that you HAVE will do that. They can and probably will overspend.

"Moving from traditional money to electronic transfers opens a whole range of new opportunities for the industry."
Yea? What industry? Banking industry? Now there are some folks you want to trust... NOT. But the real 'industry' ... The government! New ways to be big brother. A lot of things are not taxed because there is not way to track it, as has been discussed (bartering, cash transactions between private parties and such). This will give the GOVERNMENT new ways to tax. Enough is enough, no more thank you! NOT EVERYTHING NEEDS TO BE TAXED.

"While there is a really important market to capture, existing business models are not fully relevant in the emerging scenario. The race to find the best approach to catch these opportunities has already started," comments Mr. Georges." Yea. Wow. "existing business models are not fully relevant in the emerging scenario" what dangerous double talk, obfuscating the truth. Google search engine tracking your every search already. STAY OUT OF MY PERSONAL LIFE STAY OUT OF MY BUSINESS. LEAVE ME ALONE.

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Glad I'm old and it won't happen in my life.

 

When your goverment can force you to buy water and most willingly did so then the money thing and anything else will be easy for them.
How many of us would have belived water that is free for the takeing would be sold at the prices that people are paying today.
Those that gave in open the door to all we see coming.
Welcome to the world of tax and tax.

 

No it's not the level of government. The people are the government and if this is happening then it's the peoples own willingness to allow it and not prevent it. I don't buy your excusing the blame to an entity which is wholly created to be controlled from this very sort of menacing action, just as you said it was created for limited government.

Besides, no New Yorker is ever going to just 'carry a chip' because they were told to do so. They'd have to surgically implant it in the body and line the blocks with enforcers to nab anyone who had cut it out of themselves and proceeded to crisscross streets at will. If such a thing were even plausible, the same people who buy parking spaces in Manhattan for $500,000 would have a way around not wearing the chip in a couple days time of it going into effect and they'd be back to merrily crossing the street at will as they already do.

Jaywalking in the city is the norm. Jaywalking citations are not. Those who even try to stop at a crosswalk or force themselves to walk all the way to a corner to follow a crosswalk to the other side of the street are the ones who breaking from the norm. Often enough those who do appear to walking in some unusual pattern are not sane to begin with.

Do you really not smell the pot on nearly every street you walk or detect it wafting out of some kids backpack on the train every time you go out? By law people are required not to possess that substance yet it's everywhere all the time. People keep tigers in their apartments for years even though it's a violation of housing codes and animal rights. Stories abound to refute the plausibility of what you suggested. That returns me to the above comments I made about how people would skirt taxation in a cashless society. There are too many people and too many scenarios to absolutely control them all.