Ok. So what's the deal here? Krause has the French Indo-China coins listed as "Cents" The coin itself has "Cent." And the French generally use "Centimes." So is it "Cents" or "Centimes"? From Krause Standard Catalogue of World Coins 1901-2000, 2010 Edition MONETARY SYSTEM 5 Sapeques = 1 Cent 100 Cents = 1 Piastre KM# 18 5 CENTS 5.0000 g., Copper-Nickel, 24 mm. Obv: Cornucopias flank center hole, laureate head left above Rev: Center hole within wreath divides denomination, date below Note: 1.6 mm thick; prev. KM#18.1 Date Mintage F VF XF Unc BU 1923(a) 1,611,000 5.00 10.00 20.00 40.00 — 1924(a) 3,389,000 6.00 12.00 24.00 45.00 — 1925(a) 6,000,000 5.00 10.00 20.00 35.00 — 1930(a) Torch 4,000,000 5.00 10.00 20.00 35.00 — 1937(a) Wing 10,000,000 2.00 5.00 10.00 20.00 — 1938(a) 1,480,000 15.00 30.00 75.00 160 — 1938(a) Proof — Value: 275 And here's mine:
Numista lists them as "centimes." http://en.numista.com/catalogue/indochine-1.html Your particular coin is here: http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces6665.html I am inclined to think that's correct, based on the fact that "cent." with the period at the end appears to be an abbreviation.
Neither cent nor cent. (except as the abbreviation) nor centime. It's actually "centième", in the sense of "one hundredth piastre". Christian
Ok then, is it proper to write 5 "centième" for French Indo-China coinage? I wonder why Krause has let this slip for so long?
Problem is that on pretty much every French Indochina coin the word is abbreviated: "CENT." But there is one piece that does say "un centième de piastre", and that is the 1c 1885-95 (Schön 9 and 10, should be Krause 1 and 7). The plural would be "centièmes". Christian
I beg to differ. Centième does indeed mean "hundredth," but the monetary unit in quesiton is the "centime." See the "centime" wiki entry: "Le centime est la centième fraction de certaines monnaies." http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centime
Now to complicate things even further... Krause has this listed as: KM# A1 10 CENTIMES 2.5000 g., Billon, 22.5 mm.
Sure, in France for example they had the centime. But ... "La Piastre indochinoise (ou Piastre de commerce) fut la monnaie utilisée dans l'Indochine française entre 1885 et 1952. Elle était divisée en 100 centièmes, chaque centième étant à son tour divisé en 5 sapèques." http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piastre_indochinoise (Emphasis by yours truly.) Christian
Whether it's proper French to spell it centieme or centime is not the issue, not that I'm suggesting that anyone is deliberately saying so, I would just like to know what is the "proper" monetary designation for the French Indo-China issues. Krause has confused this one, at least for me, by not making it truly clear. Heck, in Spanish speaking countries there are several different spellings: Centavo (Mexico), Centimo (Spain), Centesimo (Panama).
The proper monetary designation of a French Indochina hundredth-piastre is a "centime." Thus this coin is 5 cetimes. Centieme is the fraction, centime is the unit. Krause is apparently incorrect here, as is the wikipedia aritcle on the subject, which also lists the denomination as "cent." Strictly speaking, these are not variant spellings, these are variant unit appellations. "Centavo" means hundredth, whereas centimo is a Spanish equivalent of the French "centime." Centesimo is Italian for "hundredth." So in Mexico the unit is actually called "hundredth," in Spanish currency it was a hundredth of a peseta was called a "centimo," un centavo de peseta = un centimo. Basically, we're dealing with two different words here that you would never mix up in English, i.e. "cent" and "hundredth." In French they are centime and centieme, respectively, and in Spanish they are centimo and centavo, respectively.
I hope that is helpful. I've got a small collection of French and Vietnamese coins, nothing from the French Indochina period. It's a neat coin. What got you interested in it?
The problem with the errors in Krause and the fact that more keep creeping in can be traced to short staffing. F&W Publications that owns the rights to the Krause books sees them as a VERY minor part of their publishing empire and doesn't spend resources on it. That is why you have all the Krause books being run, compiled, updated and corrected by a staff of about four or five people. That is at least six books covering five centuries and tens of thousands of entries, with a staff of five. It's impossible to keep on top of it.
Yes, that's it. As far as I know, that is the only French Indochina coin where the word "centième" is not abbreviated. And maybe the part of that Wikipedia article which says that the name of the unit is "centième" is wrong. I doubt it, but who knows ... As you mentioned, what is used in one part of the world (say, French speaking Belgium or "European France") is not necessarily used elsewhere. But if you prefer "centime" over "centième" in the case of those Indo-China pieces, go ahead. Christian
