National Remove your CAC sticker Month

It is not semantics. CAC stickered coins sell at higher prices than non-CAC stickered coins. That is an ethics problem within the industry.

Mandy

 

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I'd pay 10 bucks to see that..........

 

Take the cotton out of your ears....$10 = $10+ to $1000s+

 

Maybe, but the idea that this choice doesn't affect others and to each their own would be false. Its one market and things that affect the market affects everyone. This market, clearly, needs more regulation and needs consensus. There is no incentive for it. The ANA tried to develop one early on, if I understand my history. But it evaporated with the advent of private third party graders. Markets come together in collaboration, such as the NYSE etc. They come together and regulate themselves, and are regulated by government. The art world has other means to do this through scholarship, published debate and committees, as well as law enforcement. The coin world does not. It really is the wild west.

Amanda

 

Thanks for proving our point that the beans effect higher asking prices.

 

Not too much off the top please.

Mandy

 

How is that an ethics issue ?

While I personally don't make a big deal of a CAC sticker one way or the other, many do. That's the MARKET talking, the BUYERS talking, not the sellers.

Unfortunately, for WAY too many people, perception is reality. If a significant portion of the buying market feels CAC stickers "add value", then CAC coins begin to sell for more. It shouldn't happen, but in our imperfect world of us mere mortals, that's the way it works.

Where is the ethical violation ?

I am quick to agree that people shouldn't insist upon a CAC sticker nor pay extra for a coin with one. But they do. That's an issue of wisdom and foolishness, not ethics.

 

I don't think it is needed for me to explain this twice. Please see what was already written.

No. Markets need rules in order to function and markets have properties that are real. If someone is exploiting a market in an way that keeps it from being fair and open, then you can't say, "Hey this is the market". Its not the market it is a market distortion.


Mandy

 

Careful Mandy. You're playing in the 'major leagues' now.....

I quite agree, but I also think an educated consumer (gosh I miss Sy Simms) helps to drive the market. I've got a few green beans on coins I've purchased and I didn't pay more than market value. Heck, sometimes I paid less.

 

rather rich coming from you detecto as you fall into the same category

 

Never the less, there is one thing that CAC is not about, and that is getting more accurate grades. CAC does not sell that, and it is not their business.

Refer for example to the following third party article

http://www.coinweek.com/news/coin-grading/what-gold-coins-do-cac-stickers-add-the-most-value-to/


Now to quote the article:

It is very clear that most people are not relying on CAC for more accurate grading, if such a thing can exist which, BTW, has never been proven.

CAC makes it money on the hopes of people who think that getting their coins stickered, will by itself, increase the coins value. This is the kind of thing that would be disallowed in the art world, and the finacial markets, forget about it. If a stock would get more money if you brought it on Goldman Sacks recommendation rather than JP Morgan, forget about it. Law suites would be flying everywhere.

And look at the dubious and misleading write up that CAC has on their website:

http://www.caccoin.com/cac-in-the-news/cac-keeping-strict-standards/

In this case, I'm actually surprised that PCGS didn't sue CAC outright (something that is likely to happen at some point) as CAC is implying that PCGS's acceptance of the supposition that CAC is making, that some graded coins of the same grade are more or less then others and should be recognized, is somehow reflective of inferior grading by PCGS than CAC. furthermore, CAC is claiming that they don't accept other grading standards P&Q assessments, which is bald faced lie, to quote a friend, as they only grade slabs. If they actually did what they are claiming, they would grade raw coins and crack out misgraded coins and put them in new slabs.

But instead, CAC has this imprecise and purposefully fudgable and deceitful system of green and gold stickers rather writing in plan English, This coin is FAKE. This Coin is an MS64 in a MS63 holder. This coin is an MS63 in an MS65 holder. They won't do it. And in this regard, their business practice is less reliable than even the IKE Groups service where they give a no nonsense write up on the variety and properties of the coin.

http://www.ikegroup.info/?page_id=28

 

Some men see things as they are and say why?
I dream of things that never were and say:
Is there room for a PQ bow?

Counter demenstration.

 

That's right, their business is only to note when a piece meets or exceeds the posted slab grade. That makes some folks feel all fuzzy inside. Bottom line though? Gotta learn how to grade without the 'bean'. Folks that can pick up the coins without the bean stand to score big time. I don't need someone to label a slab with the assurance of accurate grade, but it ain't too shabby when I can pick one up (green beaned) for less than market value......

 

So then explain the 7 pages of conversation in less than a day?

 

No. They are selling lottery tickets.

 

Dang it. Another George Bernard Shaw lover?

 

On that note, I think I'm going to stop reading this forum. I'm getting private emails from someone that are rather threatening and as a pastime, there are better things to do then to expose myself to threatening private messages and emails.

Good Night all.

Mandy

 

Ok. He started the thread and hasn't contributed since page 1. Other people arguing with you has taken this to 8 pages.

??? No. Can't speak for everybody but if I sold my single CAC'd coin, I would expect to break even. The sticker is just a perk. It just gets a coin noticed. I think you're over-exaggerating what they do for most coins.

 

rfk