National Remove your CAC sticker Month

Mike, first, I was responding to Ruben's post about removing CAC stickers. If read in that light, I was simply saying why stop at the stickers and keep the coins in the slabs? What good does that do, since half or more of the "costs" he was complaining about are wrapped up in the slab, not the sticker. I was basically saying, "in for a penny, in for a pound", and if you wished to follow his suggestion go all of the way and remove the slab as well.

As for "many of which are more experienced/skilled than you are" thanks for that. I guess 35 years in the hobby, hundreds upon hundreds of coin references, and my posts here on CT are just validing the fact I am a newbie and no nothing, huh? And I thought I was actually a knowledgable, long time collector.

Stupid me.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

OK stop. We are just having some fun and sharing some thoughts here. No need for defensiveness, especially among friends.

 

Chris,

Mike's point was not that you are a newbie. I have told you in the past that your hatred of TPG's puts you on the fringe of the numismatic community; on the outside looking in. Unless you consider yourself one of the most knowledgeable coin collectors in the world, then Mike is correct. With the exception of some die hard EAC collectors, most advanced coin collectors prefer their coins graded by a TPG.

And yes, I think that there are many collectors who are more experienced and skilled than I am. There just aren't very many on this forum that fall into that category. On the NGC/PCGS forums, it would certainly apply. I have advised you to lurk those forums in the past. Or you can just post here and learn very little whilst being one of the most experienced and knowledgeable.

 

I understood what you were saying the first time, but thanks for the explanation.

As an aside, the investment in TPG grading and CAC is but a small percentage of the costs for many coins. Sure, you'd be silly to send a $100 coin to the TPG and CAC. However, if that coin is a Morgan dollar worth $1,000 or $10,000, I would argue you would be silly not to.

I never intended to suggest "stupid you". To the contrary, I respect your opinion on this and other topics. I was simply pointing out that some that disagree with your perspective are every bit or more experienced than you. In other words, you are no more knowledgeable than some who disagree with you and casting aspersions and marginalizing others with terms such as "brainwashed" is a mistake, IMO, and that was what led me to respond to you a few posts above.

Respectfully...Mike

 

Removing CAC stickers is a bad idea IMO and I will not be doing so.
But to each is own.
I just see no good reason to remove them at all and only upside for keeping them.

 

Yup, you covered it. Somebody pays for a service and then somehow its supposed to be a good idea to throw away that service for no other reason than "just because"? I dont think so.

I only have one CAC slab. I have no allegiance to CAC. I dont actively seek them out, buy or submit anything to them. But I'm not going to discredit what they do.

This is like me paying to wash and wax my car. Somebody else never does and thinks its a dumb idea so they tell me to throw some dirt on it. Only for the sake of getting it dirty again because somebody else doesnt wash and wax their car. So I shouldnt either?
Nah. This thread was an apparent attempt to be cute but unfortunately is pointless.

 

.

 

July 4th at the mall huh???

I'll be there with all my CAC coins.

I'll be wearing a green CAC cap.
I'll have on my green CAC shirt.
I'll have on my gold CAC pants.
I'll have on a pair of green, size 12, CAC steel toed boots.

I pity the nut that tries to remove my CAC stickers...:yes:

I can tap dance mighty good in my CAC boots....


.

 

This is obviously just Rubin trying to get his post count up and some attention.

 

Maybe but I think he is trying to make a good point. If, as what has been proposed here, that removing the sticker reduces the value of the coin, then something is very wrong. The coin has a value which can be determined by a market. The coin his valuable. Auction Houses have made money for centuries giving buyers added value to the rarities market by supporting experts in authentication and marketing, and they therefore take their 20% cut on the bidding price over the value of the item at the time of the sale.

Graders, on the other hand, might give a small value increase to an item because of some guarantee of the coins grade and authenticity. CAC is grading someone elses grade.

So here is the issue, among others. Authentication services might be paid a fee to run to Christies and see if an item is, in their opinion, authentic. Decades of tradition and learning has created a system, and a formal edution system, backed by law enforcement, where such assessments are done and none of them actually attach value to the item. A Renoir is as valuable as it is, before and after assessment. Only if the consensus, and this is key that in the arts everything is built around building consensus, agrees that the work in question is a fake, then its value takes a hit.

Here your claiming that the plastic adds monetary value to the coin, which is one level of problem, and then the CAC sticker is creating an entire other level of value without even providing the basic service of grading. That would not be tolerated in any other market I'm aware of. That little sticker can not be worth $5000 on a $40,000 coin, and then you still have to pay auction fees to ebay, or Heritage, and then you can still get stuck like Paul did with a mislabeled coin. Those who consider the sticker equity really need to think about what has value, rarities or stickers. If the sticker is increasing the value of the coin, then there is a crisis of ethics involved that should be confronted by the leaders of the coinage grading and dealers services.

Mandy

 

Ethics in coin collecting? How long have you been around the hobby girl?

Btw, just kidding to my dealer friends, (and to you Mandy for calling you a girl, it was just funnier). Mandy brings up a good point though. Does the sticker really add value to the coin, or is the value already there, the sticker is just a lazy man's way of not having to check himself?

I will stop right there.

Edit: Btw not calling anyone "lazy" who owns these coins. I am simply saying is the sticker an "easier" way to spot superiority of a coin?

 

Seems to me since CAC states on their website that their service is verifying the grade, on the label, to give confidence in buying that the coin is solid for the grade.

I interpret that into meaning, that there is no confidence in the grade on the label to begin with, and now that has to be verified.

 

There is a third issue. The grade and authenticity of a coin needs to be accessed at every sale, slab or sticker or not.

 

No one anywhere is saying it reduces the "value". It might reduce the liquidity because of the value of an extra expert's opinion. Astute collectors should be able to, with coin in-hand, duplicate the opinion. It's more difficult to do so online, of course, which means some people are more willing to stretch the price a little if it has a second opinion from CAC. Note that a non-sticker doesn't mean the grade is wrong, a CAC sticker simply means that CAC feels like the coin is in the mid-to-high range for that grade.

CAC is similar to a + designation. All it signifies is that the coin falls into the mid-to-high range of that grade.

Does a certificate of authenticity add value on an item you know to be authentic? Does it increase your ability to sell it for the appropriate value?

It's another way of assuring the buyer that the coin is of mid-to-high quality for that grade, and that CAC guarantees at least they will buy the coin if you offer it to them. That doesn't change the value, and no one is asserting that it does. Increasing the liquidity and ability to extract the full value is not the same as increasing the value. See my analogy to a certificate of authenticity.

 

When I send my coins to CAC I already know the grade and think they are very nice coins for that grade. I don't think its lazy to search months for a nice coin and then submit it to CAC. I don't give a crap about the bean, I already know its premium or I wouldn't have sent it in...I give a crap about the $10 I spend for every coin THAT STICKERS....$10 !!!! Years from now when I sell I promise that $10 will be well spent.

All you CAC bashers out there, question? If you could have the money for a 1921-D WL Half MS64 (both nice coins with same grade, one CAC, the other not) would you rather have the money for the CAC graded coin or the non CAC coin?

If you answer NON...man,you would really be throwing money away.....

CAC...the best $10 I ever invested in ANY coin....SHO ME THE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

Not verifying the grade, but rather if the coin is in the mid-to-high of that grade. That's a concept that even the TPGs acknowledge, but the grading scale doesn't handle.

 

I apologize for the "lazy" reference, and had already edited my post. I didn't mean it that way.

 

​

Absolutely not.

And you should know that authenticity has reversed itself. Many Rembrandt have been found to be not Rembrandt and also the reverse. The Polish Rider comes to mind.

 

The difference is that you and others are assumng that a collectors oppinion and ability to evaluate that value is of equal skill level to a graders or someone working at CAC. I know some may think that highly of their abilities but I would imagine few can realistically make that claim. I wouldnt. I dont get paid to grade coins every day.

Like it or not, a third parties opinion adds value in this situation. A CAC sticker will not add that much value to anything by itself. Not $5k. Not enough to worry about. You guys are blowing it out of proportion.

 

If I was to buy a seriously expensive coin, I would have an independent expert on hand before the purchase regardless of any sticker, plastic or anything else.