Ebay Throws ANACS Under the Bus

ANACS liked this coin at auction today: http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=3270&lot=1968 For many it is OK for grade, even nicer than some MS comparable coins in other company holders. Ultimately the market will decide until they develop a computer program that comes up with something definitive.

 

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God help this hobby when computers replace humans in grading coins.

It was bad enough when TPGs popped up!

 

Then what you have said....Employer is really a BOSS!...A grader with my understanding is PUPPET!... Now I understand why all my ICG 14 coins SET of 2008s is all Proof 70 Deep Cameo. Are you all agree with this grade Proof 70 DCAM?

 

Nope, would not call those PF70. But my, what a nice box they sent them in! I have been philosophically against the term "70" ever since it became an accepted standard. 69 is still the highst grade in my book, and I wouldn't pay a penny extra for a 70 grade. That said, your coins don't rate a 69 either. Maybe a 66 assuming the surfaces are free of abrassions.

 

I hate to play devil's advocate, but!; there is no way you, nor anyone else for that matter, who could distinguish between a 70 and a 69 from Red's photos in post #343.

Not many collectors could do it with the coins in hand either.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the grading services, but to say that they are nothing more than subjective opinion - I dunno, that's like saying that an umpire calling balls and strikes is expressing nothing but subjective opinion. It's clearly more complicated than that - yes, there is an opinion/subjective element, but there's also a strike zone, and that isn't subjective - only the judgement of how close the ball -or the coin - is to that zone. Complete subjective opinion would be something else entirely.

doug

 

First off, you're comparing coin grading to baseball umpires and how they call it at the plate.

Apples to oranges as they are not the same. However, since you mentioned it anyway, not every umpire calls it the same behind the plate.

One ump may say right on the outside edge is a strike, while another one would say the same place is a ball.

Secondly, coin grading is subjective and has been right along and no doubt will continue to be. Graders for the TPGs, can have a varying opinion from on grader to the next. Sometime when you have some extra money to test this, take any coin you wish and submit it to either TPG. When it comes back, take a photo of the label the coin is to record the cert.# and grade. Then, crack it out and submit the same coin to another TPG. If it comes back with a different grade on it, you'll see what I mean.

It's opinion, that you the subscriber, pay for, and is highly subjective, and can vary from not only grader to grader, but TPG to TPG.

 

I love the wooden case and I will graded the box as Proof 70 ! , very smooth NO HAIR LINE, NO scratches! But the coin I hated it! If I keep the coin Proof 70 Deep cameo, I do not wanted it with a tarnished or Natural Toned!
So if you think your coin is perfectly MS70 or Proof 70 then let the TPG graded it and slabbed it. Then wait a couple of years/decade and check your coin in slab if your coin has no No Natural toned or tarnished like what happened to all Proof70 that I have in slab.
The TPG means to me is just only for authentication of a coin to certfied that my coin is authentic not a FAKE one.

 

Actually, there's no way to distinguish between a 69 and a 70 with the coin in hand either.

The grading services don't even look at the coin, they simply assign a grade based on a contrieved ratio of 69s to 70s intended to make those coins labeled as "70" appear to be much more rare than those coins labeled 69. They don't even use a loup, they use a calculator to figure out how many coins from a large submission get which grade, and then without even looking at the coins, they sort them into 2 piles. A small pile of 70s, and a much larger pile of 69s. Anyone so naive to think otherwise is simply guilable. The whole 69 vs 70 thing is a fraud, and has nothing at all to do with the condition of the coin. Ever notice that there is not a single coin ever issued with a higher population of 70 graded coins than 69? Statistically, that should happen with some frequency. But it doesn't because the whole thing is rigged, and only an idiot would be so blind as to not realize it.

 

HUH? Statistically, no bell curve should EVER have one end as the high point. Yes, it is a bell curve. The only way 70's should be the high point would be when they know how to make perfect coins most of the time and they are a long way from doing that.

 

Whoever buys a slabbed modern MS69 coin buys an MS69 coin
Whoever buys a slabbed modern MS70 coin buys an MS69 coin with an MS70 sticker

 

There's a reason why that doesn't happen with any amount of frequency. Because the U.S. Mint does not produce perfection with any amount of frequency, statistically speaking.

 

The bell curve doesn't apply. If it did, then you would never see a coin with a higher population in MS65 than you would in, say, MS62, and clearly that isn't the case with the majority of the coins out there. Very often there are more coins in the higher grades, and sometimes none at all in the circulated grades. And that's because they are not using a bell curve, but rather, they are using their objective judgement as to the coins condition. Were they to grade modern coins the same way using objective judgement, you would, on occassion, see some issues where the population in MS70 is higher than in MS69. The bell curve would only work if you declared one single individual coin as the finest known, --and in fact it was descernibly the finest known-- and all the other coins below it increased in number as their grade decreased. In the real world, this obviously is inapplicable to coins, so there's really no point in bringing the whole "bell curve" thing into the discussion. The only reason I can think of, that woud compel someone to think the bell curve applies, would be if an individual had paid 5 times more for a coin in MS70 than he would have had to pay for an MS69, and the whole "bell curve" idea then becomes little more than a rationalization for such absurd and financially insane behavior.

 

Manufacturing by its very nature is a bell curve. Ergo, the grading is also. If you believe otherwise, you need to go study statistics again.

 

I'm sure this has been said already, but I think they are doing it more for the self-slabbers than anything.

That's a HUGE problem on eBay.

ANACS and ICG probably should have been included though.

Just my opinion.

 

It looks like that rare 1865 ANACS coin found a buyer and for those who missed it there is another rare high dollar ANACS coin in TTs next auction: http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=3271&lot=2496 An easy crossover and a CAC worthy one too no doubt.

 

PCGS is tougher than the other on 70s as population figures show. I don't know if their criteria are more stringent. The telemarketers play on the "rarity" of moderns in 70 holders and will promote ANACS and ICG 70s as rare an undervalued. Of course this is nonsense. A rare coin IMO is a coin that is an old series, that the experts agree is rare, the leaders in numismatics.

 

Disagree strongly. An example of this is the 1995W Silver Eagle. Extremely low mintage of 30,000, and even if PCGS gives every one of them a PR 70 designation (statistically, only one in about 200 gets that), it is still rarer than a lot of silver from the 1850-1880s. Remember that some Morgan dates have 18 million minted, many of which sat in mint bags. Just because somebody has a MS 67 1880s doesn't make it rare, by age or condition.