Does the redbook do beginer collectors a disservice

I went to a local antique auction that had a few coin as well. The coins sold, went for extremely high prices. 1893 cc morgan maybe a VG8, Cleaned went for 450.00. I watched the two bidders and they both had redbooks in their hand, I was shocked to see how high it went.

The prices in the redbook are way out of whack, and is the only explanation I could think of as why these price were so high.

 

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Well the RedBook actually lists these starting in the VF20 prices at around $700, so it doesn't actually give them exact prices for a VG8 cleaned CC from that year. They did overpay by about $200-$250 or so in my opinion but oh well, it's just how things go. They bid up into the F12 type price range at $450, but then again, I wouldn't have bothered or cared since the coin was cleaned.

 

I think the question might be better phrased do people know how to use the Red Book. It is a guide, not the gospel. I don't see where it is misleading anyone. But some people, especially less experienced buyers, may not really read it well and think things through. Note that the lowest grade priced out is VF20. If the 2 bidders were depending on Red Book only, and if they didn't really look at the grade that was listed first (lowest grade priced) and if they assumed the lowest price listed was for the lowest possible grade (good 8), and if they were caught up in the emotions of an auction, well, that is a new buyer error, not Red Books fault. Lot of if's that we really don't know the answer to, but we have all seen and probably made those mistakes once upon a time too. Red Book definitely does NOT do beginning collectors a disservice. Lack of knowledge and wisdom does.

 

Absolutely right.

1- Buy the book before you buy the coin.

2- Read the book and understand the book (and its limitations) before you buy the coin.

Many people skip step 1 but you would be surprised at the number of people that skip step 2.

 

I have seen the Red Book do quite a bit of "damage" at auctions, as new collectors or individuals interested in flipping a quick buck overpay drastically and expect an immediate return on their investment if they decide to turn around and sell their new acquisition. This is why I recommend reading through the Blue Book once to new collectors cover to cover. It's a much more realistic measure of value, especially in the case that you have to liquidate some of your collection to a dealer.

 

I would argue that the Red Book is not to blame for the "damage" someone receives from using the pricing and other information in the Red Book to buy coins at auction. Rather I think the blame lies with the buyer. Like any tool, the Red Book must be used properly to achieve a desired end and to prevent injury. If someone were to use a blowtorch to thaw out a frozen pipe and burns his house down who is to blame - the manufacturer of the blow torch or the person who misused it?

 

You have to understand something regarding not only Red Book, but other books with price guides for coins as well, is that the time frame between researching prices for the guide section, and the time the book actually is printed and hit's the store shelves, the prices have changed significantly and are outdated. Since Red Book, and the other guides, comes out annually, this is going to continue to be the norm.

 

In addition to the high-retail prices in the Redbook, part of the problem has to do with published grading standards. The Redbook has nowhere near the information for a novice collector to even begin to properly grade a coin. Then, in addition to expanded pages for grading, the book needs -- in EVERY chapter (per coin type) -- a large BOLD disclaimer in RED ink that the prices shown are for "problem free uncleaned coins without surface damage, rim hits, porosity or other damage" (or similar wording). For many series, the guide should consider a price listing for "Cull" or "Basil" state, and (of course) prices for lower grade coins in some series (like Morgan Dollars) should be expanded.

 

Heck from september-november I was using PCGS pricing guides. A few people on CT were telling me that I was overpaying for coins and I was in complete denial. I honestly believed they were just giving me a rough time because I was new to coins. Thank god some person of outstanding character felt it in their heart to mail me a grey sheet. In looking back I probably squandered 2k by over paying.

 

As a new collector, I picked up a copy of the 2013 red book when it came out. I have been stacking bullion and pre-64 stuff at as close to melt as I can stay. Once I reached my goal of having 100 ozs of silver, I decide that I would begin collecting a couple of series. I decided on the 46-64' Dimes and 48-63' Franklins. Both closed series and more importantly they both contain silver.

So after making my mind up, I made a list of dates and mms that would be necessary to complete the two series. I consulted the redbook and made a seperate list of all the coins in the series for coins that at the MS-60 grade have a higher than average price listed. These are coins that I know that I can pay a little more than average for.

I'm going to try to collect both series in uncirculated/MS-60 type condition. I'm going to have to hone my grading skills but atleast with a general guide, I shouldn't get hurt by more than a couple dollars by missing the grade by a small amount. I had thought about doing a Peace dollar set also but the penalty for messing up would be a little too high for me as a beginning collector.

 

I too have seen many people using not only the Red Book at auctions, but also publications like Coin World and Coin Prices magazines. The problem, I believe, is that these people are not buying these publications for the information, but simply for the price guides.The beauty of the internet lets everybody jump on the precious metals bandwagon. They just don't take the time to understand the difference between PM investing and numismatics. It's like buying a certain adult-oriented magazine and simply looking at the pictures, ignoring the fine literary articles that accompany those pages. The other problem is those who bring a Grey Sheet, and bid up to the Red Book prices simply because they can, knowing the guy with the Red Book is willing to go that high.

 

It doesn't matter how low the price guide goes for values, the values are outdated and not accurate.

If you want something a little more accurate, but not much more, Grey Sheet comes out several times a year.

 

Which is why I don't buy coins at live auctions, nor online ones either.

 

Well...a redbook costs 10 dollars or so. It holds some varities, errors, patterns, mintage figures, compositions, diameters, etc.

If you had a question and had to look that up online, you would get information overload and waste your time. Why not just have a handy little referance right next to you.

The old saying time is money transfers over to rejecting the theory that technology is the answer to everything, at least in the numismatic referance world.

 

I bought a red book my first year, but since the price guide is so unrepresentative of the real market (a majority of the time their prices are high) I decided it wasn't worth buying another. I do find the redbook useful in looking up basics about various issues (weight, diameter, years and mints of issue, history, etc), both for the coins I collect, that information does not change each year, so my one book from years ago is all I need.:thumb:

 

Any coin values, even the most accurate ones are useless unless you know how to grade or are buying an accurately graded slabbed coin.

 

+1

And I'll just say the over-used cliche that's always posted here: "Buy the coin, not the slab"

 

I usually pick up a new every five or six years. They are collectable but I don't want to fill my basement up with them like Frank does.

Hope the devil he don't see this post.......

 

Personally I don't think the Red Book is that useful as a price guide. Its nice that it gives a nice checklist of coins though. And though I don't have a Red Book I do have the ones that cover specific series. I do find those useful.