Countefeit PCGS-Slabbed 1879-CC and 1895-S Morgans on eBay! Seriously!...

Alright... The countefeit goods coming out of China these days are just getting a little to close to the real-deal for comfort.

Browsing the 'bay this afternoon and stumbled upon these two ladies -

1) http://www.ebay.com/itm/1879-CC-Morgan-1-One-Dollar-Silver-Coin-Carson-City-Key-Date-PCGS-MS-62-/150802678700?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item231c8a43ac

2) http://www.ebay.com/itm/1895-S-Morgan-1-One-Dollar-Silver-Coin-San-Francisco-Key-Date-PCGS-MS-61-/160788324624?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item256fbb2110

- Look closely........ They look "off", huh? But now you may say "Ohh, well, just go plug in the verification numbers at PCGS's site" - Well, I did, and the coins came up clean... Appears that THERE IS a certified PCGS MS62 1879-CC Morgan Dollar with the very same serial number, and same goes for the '95-S.

Following so far? Well, here's another twist - Both coins supposedly appeared in auction at Heritage within the past few years, and both commanded prices suitable for authentic pieces -

1) http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?hdnJumpToLot=1&saleNo=422&lotNo=6871&x=0&y=0
2) http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?hdnJumpToLot=1&saleNo=69021&lotNo=61319&x=0&y=0

- Notice anything?... Anything odd? No? Well, I SURE DID!

The coins' serial numbers were stolen for the production of Chinese counterfeit PCGS slabs.

That's right - Both coins appearing on eBay right now are modern, well-made Chinese counterfeits encapsulated in even better-made counterfeit PCGS slabs. Now, don't beat yourself up if you didn't notice anything different about the coins/slabs right off the bat - it takes an experienced eye to know what to look for when purchasing stuff like this. I even glanced at the listing, scrolled on past it, and went quickly backed-up after saying "Wait... huh?" to myself.

I've been comparing these two phonies (the slabs specifically) to genuine, certified, PCGS slabs. I've noticed differences in font style, font size, and missing/misaligned serifs. The counterfeits' label letters are a tad shorter, and appear to have a tad wider inner segments.

Now, ironically, the rest of the seller's inventory looks legit. So, I suppose as expected, the two rarest pieces he's got listed are illegitimate.

Feel free to browse through his listings to double check anything I may have missed, but I thoroughly examined each of his listings for other coins that may be fake.

Please feel free to chime-in... I'd love to hear what y'all have to say about the subject. As unfortunate as it is, I feel this is only the beginning. As technology advances, chances are the Chinese counterfeiting devices will as well, so always make sure you "do your homework" before purchasing something that may be completely new to you.

Thanks for Reading,
Brian

 

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Those coins sure don't look like the coins in the Heritage photos. Maybe you should report it to ebay.

 

It's been getting worse.

China has slowing been stepping up it's game. Even going as far as acquiring real slabbed coins, in order to reverse engineer them.

The problem is... if we let this continue, soon they will be putting out stuff that is so real looking, that even experience collectors will buy it, because it looks so authentic.

I have been keeping an eye on the whole thing for over 2 years. The quality of their stuff is improving.

However when asked "what can we do". I always get "their is nothing you can do".

This is bullhockey. Send 10-15 army men, national guard, etc over there. Blow up/ remove all counterfeiting equipment, buildings, etc.

I bet you 10 to 1, if we did something that China did not like, they would be on it like flies on poo.

This problem is just continuing to grow.

Not only is it coins, it's ancient coins, antiques, rolex watches, electronics, metal detectors, etc.

Do we take the Chinese's stuff and Reverse Engineer it....make the dies/molds, and reproduce it, and sell it for lower prices?

No, as a matter of fact...I cannot think of ONE COUNTRY that fakes stuff like the Chinese do!

But....it's business as usual. China has us by the neck because we owe them billions. So we try not to "rock the boat".

 

The only things that screamed counterfeit to me was the green label and the text. Everything else looked genuine

 

Ya think?

It's going to take more than one of us to have these auctions terminated, so do us a favor a report the auction as well. I have already done so.

That goes for the rest of yuzz too... Please report the listings...

and with your help, we can keep two more Chinese phonies off the streets and safe from the, for lack of a better word, unexperienced collector. :thumb:

-Brian

 

"Green label"? My eyes aren't the greatest, but I'm seeing nothin' but white.....................

-Brian

 

Did you report them?

 

Yes. Scroll up a bit and you'll see I've stated so (post #5).

A better question is; Did you?

-Brian

 

damn chinese, when im president, i hope to put all chinese counterfitters of numismatic coins behind bars

 

Nice catch Igrade70. We'll shut them down. Gone by tomorrow, promise.
Lance.

 

I can't speak on '95', but I am familiar with the die set that stamped the '79 cc.

That coin was struck by our old friend the J-MAN at the Big Tree coin Co.
Notice the CC mintmark. See how it is basically centered. All VAMs of the '79 cc were shifted left or right with the exception of the VAM 6. This is no VAM 6 though. The CC is way to close together for a VAM 6.

Also, typical of the Chinese copies, the coin has no luster, my guess is that since the run of coins is relatively small the dies didn't have time to develop flow lines.

The fonts do look off on the fake like you said.

Good eye catching these, and yes it is a bit scary. Makes me think about selling off my high end coins before everyone is afraid to buy them.

Mike

 

I don't even know how to respond to this.... The word clueless comes to mind....

 

Haha, thanks, Lance. I try my best to protect the community from junk like this.

It pains me to see it occur more often, but what control do I have over the matter? Well, I suppose exposing it here is my only real option, wouldn't you say?

-Brian

PS - I added you on FB recently, if you didn't notice...

 

So, you want to start WWIII over counterfeit coins? You do realize you just can't go into another country like that, it's basically an act of war at that point.

But you can stop them, it stops with education. Think with reason and logic instead of ignorance by saying 10-15 men could go into China and blow up/remove all counterfeit equipment, buildings, etc. That's just about as absurd and asinine as it comes!

 

Nice Work Brian!

 

Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief at the shear stupidity of your comments.

 

It does seem like Ebay tries to accommodate collectors, or buyers in general, whenever possible. I wonder if enough of us asked for it, they would include a comment box in auctions where if something is known to be counterfeit, people could post on it and warn potential buyers of it. Perhaps after a while, these sellers would get tired of paying ebay fees and not selling anything and just go away.

I know I dream, but I see an ebay utopia someday.

 

It's not really stupid. If you wish for the coin market to become saturated with fakes, then stand back and do nothing.

Military action is going to be the only way this problem gets solved. I can bet you a steak dinner on that.

 

My bad, I skimmed the posts after #1.
No, I didn't report them. I know I should, we all should. Maybe later.

 

Please... stop with the military action.