ANACS Responds About Ebay

From the ANACS Website

Our Response to eBay's April 17 Announcement:
To our valued customers:

Many of you have contacted us about the email sent out by eBay regarding changes in their coin listing policies that specifically impact sellers of ANACS graded coins. We want to assure that you that we are absolutely confident that this issue will be addressed by the May 30 deadline that eBay has established. We would also like to take this opportunity to address some of the specific questions that have been raised, and to share with you what we are working on, which we believe will ultimately be of benefit to you. .....

http://www.anacs.com/Default.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

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It's funny that the "certain objective standards." have little to do with what occurs between eBay Buyers and eBay Sellers.

Specifically:

1. The grading company has to have graded at least 50,000 coins before (the date of) 1956.
2. The grading company has to have an online referenceable catalog that people could evaluate the scores given coins of a certain vintage (Presumably a price guide)
3. The grading company has to have a “buy back” guarantee that would basically cover people in cases where there were issues (presumably issues over the grade)
4. The grading company had an online capability of being able to enter unique serial numbers and being able to validate the authenticity and grade of that coin.

The reality is that, if someone purchases a coin graded at MS66 which they do not feel is accurately graded at MS66, do they take it up with the grading company or do they simply return it to the eBay seller using the "required" 14 day return policy?

If someone buys a coin on eBay that has some mark (presumably grade limiting) which perhaps did not show up in the eBay photograph, do they take it up with the grading service or do they simply return it to the eBay seller using the "required" 14 Day return policy?

If someone buys a coin on eBay for $14 that the grading company says has a value of $100 (woohoo) and they try to sell it to a local coin dealer for say $75 and the coin dealer questions the grade (as they so often do) and only offers $10, do they take it up with the grading company or do they try to return the coin to the eBay seller?

I guess what I'm asking is, exactly what part is the "approved" grading service playing in this new "policy"?
IMO, very little.

I've tried submitting coins under the grade guarantee. Struck out!
I've had coins down grade from MS69 to MS66 and was not compensated for the amount I paid for the coin.
I've "learned" over the years that the ONLY purpose that TPG companies serve is as an instrument for selling coins which "might" bring higher prices in the open market.
I've "learned" over the years, that the TPG's are not ALWAYS right. Some are outright questionable.

I'm hoping that ANACS gets their ducks in a row and enables the online cert verification. Because if they do, I just might channel all my submissions in their direction since they are the ONLY Grading company which does not require a coin to be listed in the CPG before they will grade and attribute it.

 

Why is that a shock? What about the people that haven't been collecting for years? I bought many coins that I probably would have never purchased because I didn't feel confident in my grading skills at the time. Does this not promote growth?

 

Then that let's all of them out since there were no TPGs around then. They didn't show up until the mid 80s.

 

That's how I read it at first too, but I think what they meant to say is 50,000 coins that were minted before 1956.

I think you're onto something 19Lyds. I think it all boils down to:

3. The grading company has to have a “buy back” guarantee that would basically cover people in cases where there were issues (presumably issues over the grade)

FeeBay doesn't want to be involved in disputes between buyers and sellers in coin grading issues. They want to be able to say "Not our problem, talk to the company that did the grading."


In 99% of FeeBay transactions, between the seller, the buyer, the grader and FeeBay, FeeBay is the shadiest of them all. They charge you through the nose and advertise their Buyer and Seller Protection programs. "Sell in confidence" they say. But then when someone scams you, they say stuff like they can't refund the money because the credit card company reversed the charge and the money isn't there anymore. What about your (FeeBay's) money? It's still there and you said you had my back!

 

I thought the same, but then again...

Which makes zero sense as I've already stated on the other thread about this, the TPGs are not the ones listing the coins for sale on eBay. Private individuals are the sellers and any disputes about the sale is between seller and buyer.

What this all boils down to is, eBay really needs to put some numismatists on their staff to manage the numismatic market of their website. It's obvious no one there currently, knows what the heck they're doing.

Wasn't ANACS one of, if not the, first TPGs to grade and slab coins?

 

If the buyer and the seller can't reach an agreement, and if they both followed FeeBay's rules, then in theory, they'd be eligible for Buyers' and Sellers' protection through FeeBay.

This way, FeeBay can wash their hands of it and say "Not our problem, go talk to the TPG."

 

Which is how it works, and has worked right along.

What does this have to do with the TPG?

Nothing.

 

Agreed. But FeeBay wants someone else to be on the hook for a $5,000 coin deal gone bad.

I guess the way to get around their new rules is to put a $5,000 ungraded coin on FeeBay and start the bidding at $1. Sure, you'll get less in the long run, but at least you'll be able to stick it to the man if the buyer claims the coin isn't as advertised, or that it wasn't in the box, or whatever, and that's gotta be worth something, right?

 

Someone, other than eBay, IS on the hook.

It's the seller.

That's happening on eBay all the time.

Ask LostDutchman, or better yet, go read this thread: http://www.cointalk.com/t204367/

He sold a coin with a guide value of $275(don't know what he sold it for and not really my business), the buyer claimed he never received and filed an INR with PayPal, and when he(LostDutchman) provided PayPal with tracking information and delivery confirmation, the buyer filed a charge back with their credit card company. Lost is out the money, and the coin.

It's a regular occurance on eBay.

 

Yes, and they were grading coins before "slabs", but then they were an arm of ANA and were bound to the ANA Grading specifications, and as an owner of some of the photo-certificates with coins attached, I agree they were strict.

But ANA sold off ANACS as a private concern and now if you want to grade a coin as a member of ANA, you are given the right to use NGC ( not ANACS) services. That tells me a lot. I am happy that ANACS does certify many varieties that PCGS and NGC do not, for the sake of new collectors of varieties ( many of who can't tell DD from MD), but that shouldn't be impacted by the eBay rule.

And who do you actually stick it to??? All it will do is raise the fees by eBay even more eventually, or cause more stringent rule changes. The "Man" won't even take notice of it higher than a low level grunt who has to process it.
Ebay net income this first quarter were $570 million , up 20% from revenues of $3.28 Billion, up 29%. That sure doesn't indicate too much unrest and lack of sellers. IMO.
Jim

 

But the seller shouldn't be if he complies with all of the stipulations set forth by FeeBay to be eligible for their Seller Protection program.

I know, that's the situation I was referring to in my first post. I hope FeeBay steps up and does the right thing.

 

Hold on everyone!


I fully agree with Doug.

Excellent observation.

 

I wasn't actually serious, but let's continue as if I were. There is a limit to how high any business can raise its fees, because each time a business raises its fees, it risks losing some of its customers. In theory, each increase causes profits to increase at a decreasing rate. Businesses strive to find the sweet spot where they maximize profit. If FeeBay is already at that point, any increase in fees will result in a decrease in profit. That's how you "stick it to the man".

Anyway, my strategy as it pertains to FeeBay right now is to try and sell things outside of FeeBay whenever possible. That way I can sell things to people for less, and keep more of the money for myself. Win-win for both parties involved.

 

I pulled this information from this utube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ifz7_12XEI&feature=youtu.be

eBay has not published there "objective standards" just yet.

 

While what you say might be the actual case, it rarely occurs since eBay buyers return coins to eBay sellers usually as a "not as described." regardless of what the listing "states".

Its a buyer/seller thing in reality not a buyer/TPG thing as implied.

 

But.....doesn't that "$5,000 coin deal gone bad" usually revolve around:

A coin bought and paid for but not received
A coin not returned
A credit card chargeback to a delivered coin with the buyer stating "I didn't authorize this charge?"

They have little to do with "grade" or which TPG graded the coin.

 

Notice the ebay guy talking to the PNG here announcing that ANACS and ICG are toast on eBay

http://youtu.be/4ifz7_12XEI

Notice he is listed as "Gene Cook, eBay General Manager, Emerging Verticals"


"Vertical market" in commerce is where one company or group of affiliated companies controls the entire top to bottom distribution chain, thus controlling final supply and price while making money during every step. An example of a vertical market is an oil company which owns the oil field lease, the drilling rig, the pipeline, the refinery, the tanker trucks and the gas station.

Here, this is all about eventually eliminating the ability of the collector to buy and sell raw coins unless they are bought, graded, and marketed through an alliance of insiders. And the Ebay guy's twice mentioning the goal of being able "to sell at higher price points." is what this is all about. More profits for the big PNG dealers, more profits for eBay, more profits for the "chosen" grading services.

 

True, however that $570 million wasn't solely from coin sales. A bulk of it is from all the other stuff which people sell on eBay. Coin sales, while seemingly large to us, is only a small portion of what gets sold for fee generation.

Cars, cameras, watches, pictures, golf clubs, stereos, TV's, telephones, widgits, doo-hickey's and dates with celebrities!