Well Mike, I have not read a complaint about gradeflation in years, but I have read many threads that discuss how the CAC has caused a perceived tightening of grading standards both both major TPG's.
I was just joking around and did not mean to offend anyone. After re-reading my post I can see that it could sound arrogant. Sorry.
My question about CAC is who's grading standards are used? I am not trying to be smart, but I think everyone admits ANA, PCGS, and NGC standards are not identical to one another. So, does CAC have its own standards, or use one of these three?
Not disagreeing about that for new collectors sir. I agree. So are we to the point where a slab is meaningless, it has to be a slab with a CAC sticker? I am not arguing the point, I am just sad to here that two distinct firms must get paid before we as a hobby are comfortable recommending a new collector part with his money.
If you need an analogy I will give you one. I am a very experienced and strong swimmer. If I decide to go swimming in the pool in my backyard, I don't think, I just jump right in. If I decide to go swimming in the ocean off a boat 5 miles off shore, I will consider wearing a life jacket. If you are dealing with $100 coins, you will never need a CAC sticker. But what if you decide to buy a premium gem full head SLQ. I collected them briefly but that does not mean that I have the requisite grading skills to be able to differentiate incremental grades. So when buying one of these, I would look for one with a CAC sticker. It is perfectly reasonable and the cost of the TPG grading and CAC verification is a drop in the bucket compared to the actual cost of the coin. Everyone needs to realize that most of us (including myself) wade around in the shallow end of the numismatic pool. When you get to the deep end where coins cost thousands or tens of thousands of dollars, it isn't sad, it is prudent. And there are plenty of newbies who spend tens of thousands of dollars on coins, they just don't waste their time pontificating about it on Cointalk.
Sorry about the previously mentioned comment as well. It was brought to my attention that it was some sort of absurd generalization and although it could be the practice of some dealers, it certainly doesn’t reflect the bulk of the slabbed coin world. With that being said I tend to agree with Paul on this one. The 100 dollar consumers such as myself might be drinking the funky green kool-aid, but how about when you get into the 5 figure per coin range. Say for instance a toned 1962 PR-67 Washington Quarter that was purchased for $13,000. Does the CAC establish that the WQ was not only strong for its grade, but that the toning was market acceptable? I’m really not sure. Just asking.
I couldn't disagree with Paul more. Personally, I think that before you spend 5 figures on a coin you should know what you're buying. The deep end of the numismatic pool is for the big boys and although a "life jacket" may be available by way of CAC, one should be a strong grader in that series before you take someone else's word on what the grade is. John Albanese or not.
There is a very important difference between taking "someone else's word on what the grade is" and "seeking the opinion of an independant third party" that is lost to some, although I suspect not you.
I'll offer another analogy (although not as good as Paul's above). I am a very confident driver. Never been in an accident. However, I carry an excess of personal liability insurance on my car -- just in case. That's kind of the way I look at TPG and CAC -- as an insurance policy in case my confidence exceeds my skill level (or something unforseen happens). That's not to say I'm not confident in my driving skills, far from it, but rather it seems to be a prudent thing to do. Same with coins. I'm very confident in my ability to grade within my area of expertise. However, I also solicit the opinions of TPGs and CAC on the more expensive coins, both as an insurance policy should I decide to sell, but also to help validate the asking price and quality of a coin (generally offered on approval and subject to in-hand inspection). And to my first response to you.... It really has nothing at all for "taking someone else's word" and really has all to do with the value of the opinion of an independent third party. That perceived value the market attaches to it as well as the value it provides to me as a buyer, collector, and (occasional) seller of coins.
In my original post I asked three seemingly simple questions. In 29 replies, only one has been answered. None of my questions asked for debate on the merits or value of CAC or TPG's. I'll ask the two unanswered questions again. Are CAC stickers destroyed if an attempt is made to remove them? Are CAC stickers known to be counterfeited? Thanks for all relevant replies.
I dont know what you mean destroyed??? Yes they probably are counterfitted....there's a thing called a cross referance database on CAC's site...
Yes, my understanding is they get damaged if you try and remove them. "Destroyed" is a bit strong of a word. No, I've not seen nor heard of a counterfeit sticker. Regardless, you can query CAC to see if a slab has been stickered or not. As long as the slab hasn't been counterfeited, you should be good. Hope this helps, and sorry for the tangent -- as is typical with CAC threads, they seem to go astray....Mike
Going off on a tangent is fine and sometimes useful and fun, but when it does and your questions go unanswered, it can be quite frustrating. Thanks Mike. Many apologies if I came off sounding rude or unappreciative in post #31.
No experience with the CAC stickers per se, but hologram stickers are used a lot to try to prevent tampering. Unless you can remove the sticker without bending it, it will crack and be obvious that it is damaged. When bent, the different layers fracture, eventually separating. I have seen fake CAC stickers, not in person but in a photo on a fake slab. It was decent at first blush, but upon closer inspection can be verified as not authentic. My input to your two questions sir.
I've had several slabs restickered. If you tried to remove a sticker it separates in very fine layers. I had several CAC stickered slabs that I used for grading subjects. I put masking tape over the grade and sticker. Twelve hours later when the tape was removed the sticker top layer came too. CAC charged me $3 to replace each sticker.
