Grade this Morgan / Has it been cleaned?

Have to disagree , look at the GSA Morgans most are almost blast white and have been sitting in bags till they were dispensed in the late 60s early 70's .

 

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I hope the dealer you know can differentiate between a cleaned and uncleaned specimen like this? If it was cleaned well it can't be too easy to determine (at least based on my limited experience dealing with the subject of cleaned and natural coins). You know if you got the set of coins at a nice deal it may be worth the gamble of keeping them. Yet if you're dealing with rarer high grade coins I'd not fork over loads of money without them graded/certified otherwise it's like gambling with odds not in your favor. The worst case scenario is not just being a genuine (ungradable) specimen but an excellent fake! Do any coin experts live in your vicinity say on the level of Scott Travers?

 

Yup, I disagree as well. There are plenty of 100 year old coins that have little or no toning at all because the way they were stored, it slowed down the process. I have plenty of blast white Morgans that have not been cleaned with no toning.

 

there is no way this is a 66

 

I hate when I disagree with you. It looks fine to me with some bag marks. Better than a 62, maybe a MS63.

 

SO every GSA coin has been cleaned?

 

Never buy any raw coins from ebay expecting a high grade or to be gradeable. If it was a 66+ it would have been to a service and holdered. Return ASAP. If you want high grade coins buy them and crack them out, don't buy raw on ebay.

 

Return them. For that kind of money, you could buy a few slabbed key dates and not wonder if they are cleaned.

 

From the OP's first post in this thread, it sounded like he answered his own question, and that the coin is cleaned. He describes the signs of cleaning exactly. But its not really evident in the photo's. I'm assuming he is seeing something in hand with a loupe that we can't see in the pictures.

 

Thank you very much for your input. I agree that if I would have spent a bit less, I would take the gamble and send it in. As it is, I probably spent just about dead on what they are worth if they AREN'T problem coins... And I don't know if I am willing to take THAT gamble. I had the grand idea of taking some pictures through the loupe to see if you can see more detail, I think it helps.



On the reverse, you can see the same scratches running PERFECTLY parallel to each other. You can also see them on the rim, etc... following the same path. They do similar things on the obverse Now that I think about it more, these seem like rubbing scratches. IE: They rubbed against other coins and their rims created these marks. That's the only real solution I can think of for this specific coin. I'm sure that's not going to help it get graded highly either.

Additionally, I took some pics of another coin to show the other hairlines I am seeing on a few different coins. These coins actually DON'T cartwheel luster, and the hairlines are more randomly created which makes me think cleaning. Thoughts?

 

The seller claimed this was at least a 66, right? Request a return (including shipping - both ways) and if the seller balks, file a SNAD and be done with it.. you'll be happy you did. I see absolutely zero upside to keeping these coins.

 

Looks like I was right given there was wear (scratches/rubbing) on the high points of the hair. This is why I was conveying that there's a good chance this coin could only grade AU+. Yet if it is cleaned, it won't be given a grade at all besides Genuine. Send it back! Your photos prove it now beyond a shadow of a doubt. On the bright side, this was an interesting post however only a headache now to deal with for you. I've been taken too but not for this large a sum. Hope you're able to work this out successfully.

 

Since the beginning the dealer has been a pleasure to deal with. Prompt communication, fast shipping, etc... I emailed them last night about the return policy (it's 14 days) and how they handle it (paypal). He was nothing but pleasant even with the request of return information. I have not touched the coins or anything so I would hope that it would go smoothly. I'm rather sad that the coins are so far off from expectations. I really was excited about the collection.

 

Morgan Dollars as a whole are not rare, you'll get the collection you want, just keep searching and one day you'll luck out. My advice is to buy coins over ebay during the holidays since fewer buyers are competing, so you'll get a better deal chances are.

Remember too that con-artists are nice and friendly too. They figure you will not question, challenge or doubt their word. It's sad that this is the way the world works and one has to have a paranoid mind always because if not you can easily be taken advantage of. If the money is not major then every now and then we can put up with being taken. If you get upset about every little thing I've learned it's not worth it and then works against you more than the initial problem. It's best though to try to not be hasty and to shop and compare prices and overall quality.

I'm in the coin business too and will admit I'm not cheap and don't sell the best stuff out there (not horrible either) however I'm upfront about it. I don't knowingly overgrade my coins that I sell. I grade them based on the grade I believe is factual. The thing is if you rip-off a customer it is foolish and the worst thing you can do as you will never get that person's future patronage which businesses need to stay afloat.

 

Keep in mind that the two sets of pics in my last post are 2 different coins. I showed the "hairlines" of the second one to show what the other type of scratches I have seen in this set. They are on a few of the common dates. One thing that is interesting about the non-parallel scratches (2nd set of pics) is that on PCGS photograde MS65 for a Morgan, it almost looks exactly like what I've shown above. A ton of hairlines that look like cleaning marks... definitely weird.

 

I fully agree! I was thinking the same thing.

 

YOOO

Not only is that a diferent coin (a CC), it has been harsly cleaned, maybe whizzed even.