Quality VS Quantity Part 2. Turning low grade into a sleeper.

I bought a 1936 MS-64 Cleveland Sentinel Half Dollar in MS-64. $125 shipped.




Although some may argue, $125 for a MS-64 coin with a mintage of 50,030 is a bargain in my book.

50,030 is a very low mintage. Only 1,616 examples of this coin are graded by NGC in this grade.

 

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Nice coin if you like it, not to sound rude, but you paid on the higher end of the spectrum,

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?sati...t=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=200


I would consider this a bargin

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...%2BA3SzEYDtrmqFr4fYZ8%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

Low mintage is only a factor for coins in demand. Much as I like commemoratives, they have always been sleepers. I keep waiting for them to wake up.

$125 isn't a bad price, particularly if you are thrilled with it.
Lance.

 

I don't see a great interest in commens. That's why the price is so low. Go look at regular issue coins, in MS64 with around the same population commanding a price 5-30 times that.

I like a lot of your older, high grade coins like seated half dollars, barber halves, etc. But when you get up into the higher grades, your going to spend a pretty penny.

I would LOVE a MS barber half dollar. But at $500 it's out of my sights financially.

I see commens waking up in the next 20 years. People who want old, high grade, low mintage don't wanna shell out $1000s for non commens. So they will turn to commens...I think.

There are plenty of old, high grade coins I would like to have, unfortunately I don't have the 1000s of dollars it takes to collect them.

 

That mintage, and considering they were commemoratives so most saved, isn't that huge. Its all about how many are surviving versus demand. Always has been. If there are 50,000 available, but only 45,000 demanded, price will go down. 55,000 demanded and price will go up.

My main advice is not get wrapped up with mintages or even how many are still available. I have ancients that there literally is maybe 10 in existence on earth. But, if only me and 3 others want them, who cares?

Collect what you love and there will never be a bad purchase. Personally I think your purchase long term will be fine. I see the series as underappreciated.

 

Not going to argue with you about the sleeper part, they very well could be. Won't argue about the price if you like it. What I could argue(notice I said could) with is 50k minted and 1.6k graded 64. I know coins with lower mintages that also do not have outlandish prices. Scroll thru the redbook and look at some of the other coins and their mintages. Then you can shop around. Some of the proof shield nickels have much lower mintages, yet you can find them for reasonable prices. For example - 1879 proof can be had for $200(assuming a lower grade proof) or more with a mintage of 3.2k. Personally they could both be sleepers, but you never really know. Bottom line - buy the coin, not the holder. And then just enjoy the coin and maybe if you are lucky you sell it for a profit in 10 to 20 years(if lucky).

 

Good advice sir.

Now if could argue with you, (I said could as well), I would point out there is a huge difference between mintages of an entire type, and mintages of only a proof version of one year of a type issued for decades. I said could as well, and I actually think a lot of coins in the 19th century are sleepers.

Point being, buy what you like to own, learn more about it, enjoy yourself, and try to let others know about this wonderful hobby.

 

Did you buy the coin because you liked it, and want to collect the series, or did you purchase it for profit down the Pike? You are treading in dangerous territory, Detecto, if you chose the latter. The love of collecting and the love of money are mutually exclusive with this series. Too dang fickle. Folks that paid big money for these in the eighties lament.......unless, of course, they were collectors. As my colleagues above have mentioned, I too await for a resurgence......a rejuvenation in the series, but hopefully not too soon. You see, I have a passion and love for classic commems and hope to collect as many as I can while the series resides in the doldrums. Hopefully that will continue for as long as I collect the series......

 

Trends change. For all you know, the commems might not increase in the future, they could be at the peak right now and then they could plummet. That's a chance you take if you're going to speculate with coins.

If you're going to collect coins, you do so because you like the coin not because you're looking to make a killing in the future. Go to a coin shop and see what their inventory looks like in the back room. I guarantee that you will find boxes and boxes (or barrels) of dead stock. Heck, I'm not a dealer and even I have dead stock! (Anyone interested in 20 rolls of 1963 Canadian pennies? I didn't think so.)

Decide whether you want to be a collector or a dealer. If you want to be a dealer, fine. If you want to be a collector, make that your focus.

 

Something you should realize is the NGC/Numismedia price guide lists the value of this at $130, and as stated before, these can be found in same grade for under $100, it's not really what one would call the deal of the century.

 

Heck, I bought a '65 off o' Teletrade a little over a year ago for $108 so ya gotta due some 'homework' there Detecto.....

 

Very true all of it. And in some of the years I actually thing more proofs survived than business strikes. Thats why business strikes are way out there. So just like you said - buy what you like to own and learn about it. Sometimes it is more fun learning part of the history than it is owning the coin - sometimes.

 

I was thinking that about 25 years back while I was building the set. Had a lot of fun with it but they still sleep. Hope it changes but I'm not holding my breath.

 

They may sleep but I'm wide awake........

 

The 1,616 NGC examples in that grade is not the relevant number. When listing a population number you should always list it this way: (graded examples/higher graded examples). The NGC population in MS64 is (1616/2480). Now consider that the total population including PCGS is (4391/5201). In my experience collecting classic commemoratives, most collectors want their coins in the gem grade (MS65) and most prefer the premium gem grades (MS66-MS68). The MS64 grade is barely collectible and even if the demand increases dramatically, I don't see much movement in the price of low grade commemoratives due to the abundance of gem state commemoratives available for almost every issue.

And as already pointed out, Numismedia Wholesale is currently $103 and the last 5 examples sold by Heritage all sold for between $84-$99. IMO, you paid a retail price for a rather generic coin.

1936 50C Cleveland PCGS MS64 Heritage Auction

IMO, if you were looking for an affordable example of this issue, you should look for an MS65 example with fantastic luster and a nice original patina. Here is an example of what I am talking about.

1936 50C Cleveland PCGS MS65 Heritage 2007

Please note in the coin description that Numismedia Wholesale for an MS65 in 2007 was $208 and is currently $140. For a few extra bucks, you could have had an MS65. It is only when you reach the premium gem level that the price jumps and even they are available for less than $300 in MS66.

 

The best place to be as a collector. I hope the prices go up, but only after I have all the coins I need

 

I agree completely with Paul, but then, it is neither he nor I who is shelling out the money. It all boils down to whether or not you like it and can afford it.

I had been looking for several years for a nicely-toned Oregon Trail. Blast white and MS64/65 specimens were just too common, but every time I saw a nice one at auction, I got blown out of the water. A couple years ago, I spotted this one on Mark Feld's site, and I was able to buy it at a price substantially below Numismedia and the auction prices where I was outbid. I knew it was a good deal and I didn't want to risk losing it to someone else, so I didn't hesitate buying it. It's a 1926-S, NGC MS67. NGC has graded a total of 2746 with 196 in MS67 and 11 higher. Of course, I already knew these stats because MS67 was my target grade.

The biggest mistake I think Detecto made, despite the fact that most early commem prices have remained low, is his belief that his MS64 specimen will increase in value (enough to overcome inflation?) 20 years down the road.

Chris

 

I dont know detecto a pcgs ms 64 just sold for 79.00. You could of shoped around a little
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150790907521?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

Just out of curiosity, what are the chances of cracking an MS-64 out and sending it back in for regrading and have it come back as an MS-65. Are the differences in the grades so pronounced that "Once a 64, always a 64"?

 

Well, what do you think? Is there sufficient luster to maybe make the grade? Are there no distracting hits or marks? I've got a '64 Connecticut Commem that I swear could get a '65 if I cracked it out and resubmitted it. But it's still a crap shoot and besides, I paid '64 money for it........