MS65 if it were without the adjustment marks???

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Have to disagree with you there. While weight of the coin may have been checked in some automated method, there still had to be some way of insuring the coins were of full weight, or more importantly, were not over weight. I've seen videos filmed in the early 1930s of Sovereigns being minted, and the coins were still weighed individually after they were struck. If they were doing it in the early 1930s, then it stands to reason the same held true at the turn of the century. Presumably not many coins would have fell outside of tolerance, but of those that did by a limited amount of deviation, the traditional method of adjusting the weight with a file seems fairly likely in my estimation. Unusual on a coin from the late 19th century? Yeah, agree with that much. But certainly not impossible. And the damage is consistent with what was typically removed from a coin via adjustment file a century earlier. I stand with NGC all the way on this one, no question it's something that happened at the mint as part of the manufacture process.

 

Probably true at most mints, but was it true in Copenhagen? Don't know myself, but just the existence of this coin suggests they were still filing them down when over weight, at least for Danish issues of the realm.

 

Some of the marks are deeper than others, a few at the top very faint, a few in the middle missing entirely. The file itself was probably not perfectly flat, hence not all of the file made contact with the coin. Pehaps if they had used one of those Pentagon procurred files that cost $60,000 for a simple hand-tool, then maybe all the lines would be there. ;-)

 

The first impression I got regarding those marks was that the coin was under a piece of furniture that the guys in the next room were sliding across the floor.......

 

These are NOT adjustment marks. I wonder if NGC determined that the marks were done in the minting process after the coin was pressed. Maybe in a counter or something. But it really looks like someone slid it across a table. I'm a bit surprised they graded it.

 

Prince,

I do not think they are adjustment marks either. I have never seen adjustment marks that were that perfectly parallel. It was a manual process so the lines were usually not that perfect. They also seem to flow from the devices to the fields to cleanly. I do not think file marks would appear like that. It looks like PMD to me.

Mike

 

Couple others...,,

1824-A France 40 Francs. Massive deep file marks on poor Charles' cheek.



1811-A France 40 Francs adjusted in what was the typical fashion of the Paris mint. Note the file marks on both sides of the coin along the rim, at times extending into the legend as at 4:00 obverse. Many coins with adjustment marks are seen adjusted this way.



1808-A France 40 Francs that was adjusted across the portrait. Would assume there were other lines that have since worn away as the coin grades Fine at best. If you look close, a deep file mark near the ear and a couple lighter lines farther back in the hair, but parallel to the ear adjustment.

 

Even when they did do adjustment marks, the strike would have eliminated most traces of them. The first coin is simply a damaged coin that I agree with Doug with, I have no idea why it got graded.

 

The coins were never adjusted prior to striking, always afterward. Otherwise they would have failed to detect underweight coins from laminations popping off and the like when being struck.

 

Hmm, I do not own a coin with adjustment marks from the mint that were done post strike. In fact I have never really heard of that short of semi bullion issues like early Mexican. I do own a flowing hair half with adjustment marks on it.

Do you have any references talking about such post strike adjustment marks being done at the mint? I would like to read about it.

 

That coin is an eyesore

 

If a sheriff's deputy in Deadwood, South Dakota came across a person laying face down on the side of the road, said person very dead and with an arrow protruding from his back, would the deputy then claim that it wasn't a homicide because no one had been killed by an arrow in the back in over 100 years?

I mean c'mon, the coin speaks for itself!

 

How so sir? How is it provable the damage to the coin was done by the mint? I am not trying to be snarky, I am honestly asking how these marks can be proven to have been made intentionally at and by the mint.

Any kind of marks like this, unless made intentionally as part of the minting process, are considered damage. I am just trying to understand how its provable that this is not PMD. Adjustment marks made prior to striking are demonstrably mint action due to the overstrike over them.

 

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck,,,,,.....,,,,,why then it's probably a duck. Which I am fairly certain is the same conclusion NGC came to, since they would have had to been blind to miss the adjustment marks when they authenticated it.

Meanwhile, if I am ever charged with a crime for which there is nothing but circumstantial evidence, I would hope someone like you is on the jury(!)