Do the top grading companies ever make a mistake on the authenticity of a coin?

Does anyone know if any of the top grading companies have ever been wrong about the authenticity of a coin? Like, if one grading company calls a coin "not genuine" or "questionable authenticity" is it possible to send it to a different grading service for a 2nd opinion OR is it just a waste of time and money? Im actually more curious if anyone knows if its ever happened - where companies have disagreed over the authenticity of a coin (for example a genuine coin but a date that is known to have very high end professional counterfeits. Thanks in advance for anyone's opinion or help.

 

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I had NGC bag a trade dollar as "Questionable" or what ever word they used. I sent it to PCGS and it came back slabbed, but I was pretty sure it was good or I wouldn't have sent it ,as I did a lot of homework and looking at references , or I probably wouldn't have done it. Questionable is different than a strict "not genuine" in my opinion.

Jim

 

Every once in a while they'll miss one. I believe their guarantees will cover you if that happens, but I recommend checking their sites to confirm that.

 

If the top TPG's do make a mistake it most likely will be towards grading an "iffy" coin as possibly not genuine. It is highly doubtful any respected TPG would assign a grade to a counterfiet coin as this could lead to all kinds of liability problems down the line. Even the best coin counterfietters can't make a perfect coin. Characteristics such as a hair line, a pit or a die crack in the genuine "master" are duplicated in the hubbing process and thus transferred to the copies. Technically, no two coins are EXACTLY alike but they may be extremely close.

 

Working on trying to get one of your fake coins slabbed it seems? Maybe try ICG or the like.

 

There was that thing with the o though......Then there was that Omega.

Daddy always said the person that never makes a mistake usually don't do nothing.

 

Human's do the grading and decision making, human's make errors therefore yes it could and does happen. Hense why at least PCGS and NGC stand behind the coin if they put it into a slab as genuine and the grade if applicable. As far as I know the nly thing they don't stand behind are things like red, red brown descriptors as coins can and will age even in slabs.

 

Let me ask, though, a theoretical question. If a fake is so good one cannot prove its a fake, is it?

As a practical matter, I don't think TPG was around when the Omega fakes were around, but if they had they would have been fooled. There has been instances of fakes in slabs, usually the TPG pays up for the wholesale value of the coin if proven wrong.

 

The above quoted comment is as abhorant as this one:
http://www.cointalk.com/t198859-2/#post1353975

I still haven't said anything to Merc Crazy since that comment was made. Until I get a sincere apology from him over that highly inappropiate comment I wont communicate with him again. Suggesting that someone is attempting to commit fraud or at the very least a highly unethical act (in this case knowingly submitting a fake coin with the hope of getting it slabbed as genuine) with absolutely zero proof is not the best way to make new friends or welcome a new poster on here.

 

Yes ,they do make mistakes.More often than they would like to admit IMO & they have been know to clean/dip coins too (Fact).

 

PCGS authenticated the 1896-O, 1900-O and 1902-O Micro-O Morgan Dollars before determining they were actually contemporary counterfeits.

[h=3]PCGS Announces Contemporary Counterfeit Status of 1896-O, 1900-O, and 1902-O ''Micro O'' Morgan Dollars[/h]

The Omega Saint Gaudens Double Eagle was identified by one of the guys at ANACS years before PCGS and NGC began. (I can't remember the guy's name right now but he was an instructor for one of my ANA Summer Seminar courses. It was fascinating to hear him tell how there was something about the coin that just didn't look right and then he noticed the Omega. Cool story.)

 

The Omega coins are indistinguishable (except for the symbol, visible only under high magnification) from the real thing. Sometimes a good counterfeiter just gets it right. Personally I believe there are a lot for fakes in top TPG slabs they we think, though Doug feels otherwise.

 

The best way to defend yourself against fakes is KNOW THE COIN. If you plan to buy an expensive coin, do as much research as you can about that particular date and mm to find out as much as you can about all the nuances of that particular coin. For instance, many fake pre-'21 Morgans have been made with the 1921 reverse. So if you are buying a 1895-S Morgan and the price seems to be too good to be true, get every scrap of info on the 1895-S as you can before you buy. Additionally, just because it appears to be slabbed by a top TPG, holders are also counterfietted. Study the characteristics of that particular TPG's holder whether it's an old rattler or a newer one.

 

I believe Lance posted an 1804 ngc large cent that was not genuine and conder101 caught it based off the diagnostics of a real 1804 large cents. So yes they do make mistakes. You could probably search on 1804 and find the thread.

 

It's a new poster with 1 post and he starts a thread asking if he had a bodybagged coin marked not genuine, could he get it slabbed by a different company. At the very least, that sounds shady to me. Didn't even do an Intro/New Member thread first. Seems like a red flag to me, but I guess I could be wrong.

So to the OP, why exactly are you curious about this, if you don't mind me asking?

 

They do, but not very often.

What's even better is if you, as a buyer, are burned, NGC/PCGS will make it right. Both have solid authenticity guarantees.

 

I have a set of pictures of fake 1804 cents in slabs, one from NGC and one from PCGS. I own a Straits Settlements piece in an ANACS slab that has an altered date. Some where I have images of a Polish piece in an NCS slab marked Genuine Cleaned that has an altered date. And a fake 1795 dollar in a SEGS slab. No pictures but at one ANA convention there was a lot of excitement over rumors about a PCGS slabbed Capped Bust half that had both a new obv and new reverse. When the dealer finally displayed it it was quickly identified as a known contemporary counterfeit. So yes even the big boys make mistakes.

The Omega's were good for their time, they make better one today.

Yep, it took them eight years after NGC and ANACS had decided they were counterfeits and stopped grading them for PCGS to come to the same conclusion. But their press release makes it sound like they made the great discovery.

What THEY decide is the fair market value. That Polish piece I mentioned earlier, $8,000 coin. The owner was offered something like $250. When he declined, they washed their hands of it.

NGC will not stand behind variety attributions either. PCGS will.

The guarantee covers you if the slab a counterfeit as genuine. If they bodybag your genuine coin as a fake, your out of luck. You pays your money and tries again.

They do now, but up until 2006 they did not have a written guarantee of authenticity, only for grading. They did always stand behind their slabs, ever since they started, but they had no written guarantee that they had to.

 

They're human, so they will make mistakes, no one is perfect. Sure you can send it to another TPG-- heck you can send them to as many as you want if you have the time & money.