I stopped at a coin shop yesterday where I looked through the fellow's bust and seated material. A couple of coins jumped out at me, both Bust Quarters, an 1825/3 and an 1825/4, the first had an "L" counterstamp. He wants around XF CDN bid for each. Anyone have thoughts on whether they are worth GreySheet money based on possibly optimistic grading? Thanks for the feedback.
What does the 25/3 grade? When you say CDN XF bid I assume you mean type coin money? If so and the coin is anywhere close to XF and you can afford it I'd say BUY IT. (I am also assuming the L counterstamp is above the head between the star and the peak of the cap.)
The bid on those coins is around $1200 in XF, more for the "L" variety. I looked at Heritage's auction archives, which are admittedly some the best in the industry, but often when you enter a coin to search it turns up nothing or only a few examples. But from there you can go on to an expanded search. Examples that are similar @ HA: http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1167&lotNo=8173 http://www.ha.com/common/search_results.php?Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles&N=0+790+231&Ntt=1825/3 "L" The problem is whether the coin(s) will grade @ or near estimated grade. The certified HA examples are not that different than what the coin dealer is selling.
Thanks for that, they are neat coins. The problem with buying raw coins is whether they will grade, in this case VF35 to XF45 would be a winner, VF details or EF details would not be a winner.
Owle I just submitted an 1831 VF35 I believe. The reverse has some black residue suggesting that it has been dipped, we'll see if it comes back in a body bag.
Well, after looking at the coins in hand if you are not confident that they will grade then you don't buy the coins. Pretty simple philosophy if you ask me.
I bought it this week, the 1825/3 "L" counterstamp piece. To me it looks VF35/XF based on auction pictures. I sent it in to grading. Looking at the PCGS and NGC price guides, it is hard to find a precise pricing indication. Trends gives a price as well as the CDN, but not for the "L" variety, not sure if that adds much value.
He probably thinks they could be faked. In this case I have a good working relationship with the dealer, no real chance it was faked based on what he told me. I examined the coin very carefully with a loupe, fields are dark but did not see any problems. I'll share the grading results.
Also, is attribution of value on this coin? They will presumably indicate the rarity factor etc., if it is asked for?
More likely his concern is the fact that they are not original. A counterstamp after all is thought of by many as being damage.
Do we even know why they were done? The best speculation was that the L and E counterstamps were part of a PA group's political actions: "These quarters are a true numismatic enigma. Many have postulated theories about the E and L counterstamps on 1815 and 1825 quarters, but each theory has conspicuously lacked documentary evidence exactly why these pieces were counterstamped. An excellent summary of the various theories can be found on pages 354 to 357 of Steve Tompkins' new quarter reference. What is known is the first coin, an 1815 'L' counterstamp, appeared in a George Massamore sale, August 31, 1881. That is one of the few facts we know, and after that the questions begin." http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1132&lotNo=502&lotIdNo=123001
No we don't, nor does it matter. The only thing that does matter is that it was done. Damage is damage.
Yes, they are. For many years even the TPGs considered chopmarks damage and they would not slab chopmarked coins. But as has happened with other things, the TPGs changed their policy because their customers demanded that they do so. The only time that a counterstamp is not considered damage is when that counterstamp is made by a government and the purpose of the counterstamp is to designate the value of the parent coin.
