How do you tell the difference between a likely ms/pf 69 vs a ms/pf 70?

I want to be able to tell if a coin is likely to hit 70 before i send it in and wanted to know if anyone had any tips or methods that they use.
Do you guys take your coins out of the plastic holders to grade them? with all the marks and reflecting light on the plastic cases i am not
having good luck grading my coins that are in the original government holders.

 

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The case shouldn't make any difference. You need a bright light (I prefer a halogen, but fluorescent will do) and about a 10x loupe.

If the coin is a proof, start by examining all of the cameo surfaces first. This is where the minute flaws are more likely to occur.

Slowly, tilt the coin back-and-forth and up-and-down (every which way) under the light. Be sure to check all of the devices, the legend, date, mintmark and yes, even the rim. If there is even the tiniest pinprick of a nick in the cameo, you will see it sparkle where the light hits the exposed metal.

It is a little bit trickier examining the mirrored fields. You're still looking for the minutest of imperfections, but it is easier to see them by looking at the fields at an angle. If you see something, you also have to be sure that it isn't just a shadow cast by a speck of dust on the inside of the plastic case. An easy way to tell if it is actually a speck of dust, is to tilt the case slowly and see if the position of the mark moves on the coin. If it does, then it is just a speck of dust.

Take a look at these photos of my 2005-S KS Silver SQ, NGC PF70 UCAM. The close-up photo was taken before submitting it, and you can see a bunch of small specks of light in the field (and even some flaws on the inside of the case.) This was dust on the inside of the case, and when I moved the case under the light, the position of the shadows on the coin moved. As you can see, all of the specks are gone on the slabbed coin.

Examining uncirculated coins uses the same procedure, but it is even harder still because all of the surfaces are the same finish(except burnished or satin finish), and you have the high and low spots of the devices (like hair) to check.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

30+years of grading coins, and you still won't be able to tell.

 

Agreed! To see the differences between the two buy one slab of MS 69, Let is say 1964 D Kennedy, Then buya another slab of 1964 D Kennedy of MS 70 then try to compare it. What will you see on both surface of the coin is same the way I look on them.
That's all.

 

If it's obvious to you that it's not a 70, then it's probably not a 70. Otherwise, perhaps the question could be refined to say: what kind of imperfections keep a coin from being a 70? You could look closely enough, even under lo-mag, to see imperfections, but would that keep it from being graded a 70 by a random guy looking for 30 seconds? A slight die smoothing out the matte surface, a pin point, a fraction of a "milk spot?" I'd like to know as well.

 

Are these coins you plan on keeping and not selling? That's the real question.

If you don't plan to sell these, then don't even worry about sending them off to get graded. Just enjoy them. You don't need a 3rd party sending your coin back with a slapped grade on it to give you the warm and fuzzy feeling of approval. You define perfection within your own collection, you don't need others to do that for you. Send them to me, I'll slap PF70 or MS70 in a nice slab if it makes you feel better about them. :yes:

 

What % of the time do you think you would get right 69 vs 70 according to the TPG'ers?

 

There's no set way. Some ms69's look better than ms70's. Its purely opinionated, determined by the grader. Some AU-58's look better than Ms61's. I actually was shopping for a ngc eisenhower commerative, and i found a ms69 that looked better than a ms70.

 

X1000 on this. I think its detremental to spend 300-800% on a common coin that is graded in ms70, and there are more ms69's readily available. You just have to closely examine the coin, and buy the coin, not the slab. The grade you see on the slab is purely opinionated of the specific grader(s) that have seen that coin.

 

Oh YES!:thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:....

 

I think i set my hopes too high with my first post. Maybe i should try just excluding coins with visible flaws that i can see to increase my odds. So i think im just going to try to pick the none 70s out and send the rest vs trying to pick the 70s out.

 

The only way to tell the difference is by the selling price !! Anything else is purely a guess.

 

Again, what's the purpose of sending them off to get graded? Are you intending on reselling them? If not, I'd say don't waste your money. Just enjoy the coins as they are.

 

Luke: If you can narrow it down to just a few coins that you think stand a good chance at a 70, you can always post pics here and get opinions. This is a tough one though. I have seen 70s with visible flaws and 69s that look flawless. TPG grades especially on moderns seem to just be a consensus grade at one single point in time. Crack them out of the slab and resubmit and you may get a different consensus grade at that new point in time. TC

 

I'm pretty sure that whether it's a cloudy day, how many cars are on the road and the temperature of the graders coffee that determines a 69 from a 70.

 

I just bought a bausch & Lomb 5x Packette off flebay, i hope thats enough zoom.
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